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Trillo

(9,154 posts)
Sun Nov 23, 2014, 04:47 PM Nov 2014

Do Not Evangelize" list?

Are there any possible legal filings that will stop Christian Evangelists from continuing to harass me at my home?

Over the years, I've said "No" to Christian evangelists who persist in knocking on my front door. I'm sure I've said "No" at least 50-100 times over the last 30 years. This is bullying behavior by a sub-set of Christians, who may wrongly believe they are doing good, and may not understand the harm others, in their name, have done in the past.

I have PTSD from Christian boarding schools, I "personally" understand the religion to be fundamentally incorrect and lacking in compassion for those they've harmed, they seem to "not get it", while simultaneously believing, "Spare the rod, spoil the child." When they knock on my door, it is everything I can do to stop myself from making a citizen's arrest for harassment, and after their visits, I have PTSD flashbacks for several weeks if not longer.

I've thought about putting a notice on my front door, but have in the past had them tell me they didn't see the note that I did have on my door (it was a polite, "No soliciting" right at eye level on the front door window glass, now it's gone, it didn't work). I have considered it unlikely, but possible, that many of these Christians are unable to read English. They, after all, are not the hierarchy, but instead the members doing what their Christian leaders have told them must be done. They are probably, for the most part, good people.

There must be a legal way to preempt this abusive Christian behavior on private property without resorting to physical force. Very wealthy people use the physical force of gates and barriers, but average folks aren't allowed by zoning to put up such fencing, and the Christians have claimed, they didn't see No Soliciting notes. Their most recent game is to not evangelize, but instead "invite" to a "party" at the church. I can hardly bring myself to walk into one of those places for even funerals, any more.

Is there a "Do Not Evangelize" list, that I can put my home address on, so that they will know they are not welcome, in advance? If not, why not? This is the kind of list that will help "keep the peace".

69 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
Do Not Evangelize" list? (Original Post) Trillo Nov 2014 OP
Most of the bullying happens on Saturday here Warpy Nov 2014 #1
Thank you Warpy. Trillo Nov 2014 #6
Good for you! Mopar151 Nov 2014 #10
I don't know if you can do anything to stop them. murielm99 Nov 2014 #2
My Mom used to say to the Mormons, yeoman6987 Nov 2014 #19
Very interesting, not for me, however. Thank you, though. Trillo Nov 2014 #20
You have a right to tell them leave immediately if they do not you will deal with this as trespass. gordianot Nov 2014 #3
I agree with the sign, the problem is its phrasing. Trillo Nov 2014 #21
Do not be shy tell them you want them to leave and not come back do not engage in conversation. gordianot Nov 2014 #38
I've never had one in the 26 years I've lived here tularetom Nov 2014 #4
Your lucky rattle! :0) Trillo Nov 2014 #22
Our Agnes is sitting here snickering. "I like his style," she says. PDJane Nov 2014 #26
I have a peep hole in my door Mz Pip Nov 2014 #5
Just don't open your door to them. okasha Nov 2014 #9
Got your message. "Nobody home." Thanks. Trillo Nov 2014 #23
I understand what you mean. Jamastiene Nov 2014 #37
I'm sorry to read about your experience. Trillo Nov 2014 #43
I sincerely hope that you find a way out. cbayer Nov 2014 #44
I can tell you their rate of success, for the JW's Schema Thing Nov 2014 #13
Thank you for your thoughts. Trillo Nov 2014 #33
I go one step further. Jamastiene Nov 2014 #36
One woman from the local JW congregation made a point of visting the parish priest every week. rug Nov 2014 #7
OMG - You not only let them in, you give three hours of your time? No Vested Interest Nov 2014 #41
Sadly i don't think you have edhopper Nov 2014 #8
Liking the pentagram Mopar151 Nov 2014 #12
You're coming to a razor's edge of closeness to my beliefs about their beliefs. Trillo Nov 2014 #31
I was raised as a Jehovah's Witness Schema Thing Nov 2014 #11
Another thing you can do with JWs TlalocW Nov 2014 #15
I'm interested in what the courts have said. Trillo Nov 2014 #25
I don't. Schema Thing Nov 2014 #67
PTSD is primarily internal. Trillo Dec 2014 #68
Get a bigger sign and put it in the middle of the door TlalocW Nov 2014 #14
I have done that in the past. Trillo Nov 2014 #24
That would be nice. These assholes refuse to understand what 'no soliciting' means. AtheistCrusader Nov 2014 #16
Yes, that is the primary issue. Lack of respect. Trillo Nov 2014 #27
I leave their literature in the door and keep moving it around so they think already been hit. If Mnemosyne Nov 2014 #17
I've done that in the long-ago past "get the fuck outta here" Trillo Nov 2014 #29
If they keep coming back after being told to stay away, okasha Nov 2014 #40
I think yours is a good idea. Trillo Nov 2014 #46
Always answer your door naked. Warren Stupidity Nov 2014 #18
Are you serious? Trillo Nov 2014 #30
What about a Christain who invades my home or room? Trillo Nov 2014 #62
I live downtown in Toronto. I've not been bothered with them for ages. PDJane Nov 2014 #28
Thank goodness for life's blessings. NT Trillo Nov 2014 #32
They used to come to my house frequently. Curmudgeoness Nov 2014 #34
It seems the best outcomes such as yours Trillo Nov 2014 #47
I am sorry Dorian Gray Nov 2014 #35
Thank you. Trillo Nov 2014 #48
I think other people suggested contacting the churches directly Dorian Gray Nov 2014 #51
I have a sign next to my door that reads... malokvale77 Nov 2014 #39
Ours must be smoker friendly. Trillo Nov 2014 #49
Don't forget the part... malokvale77 Nov 2014 #61
Legally, I'm afraid I don't see anything that could be done Prophet 451 Nov 2014 #42
You're lucky, or there is some kind of cultural difference. Trillo Nov 2014 #50
It's a cultural difference Prophet 451 Nov 2014 #56
I'm not sure there is a legal solution, but I would try a few things. cbayer Nov 2014 #45
Thank you for your suggestions. Trillo Nov 2014 #52
Glad you are pursing possible solutions. Honestly I don't like anyone cbayer Nov 2014 #54
Have you considered a security system (motion sensor or camera) and a sign No Vested Interest Nov 2014 #53
That's an interesting phrase. Trillo Nov 2014 #63
I get occasional proselytizers way out here in the woods, where next to nobody lives. longship Nov 2014 #55
I do believe there are bigger issues that as a people we have to deal with Trillo Nov 2014 #64
My friend was getting visit from Mormon boys nichomachus Nov 2014 #57
He's lucky the next knock at his door wasn't the cops. cbayer Nov 2014 #58
Wouldn't be my style, anyway. Trillo Nov 2014 #65
What about this sign? Except change "salesman" to missionary or evangelist woodsprite Nov 2014 #59
A little on the aggressive side for me. Trillo Nov 2014 #66
There is indeed a legal solution. trotsky Nov 2014 #60
"I put up a really big NO FISHING sign but fuggin illiterate a-holes still knock my door!" struggle4progress Dec 2014 #69

Warpy

(111,332 posts)
1. Most of the bullying happens on Saturday here
Sun Nov 23, 2014, 04:57 PM
Nov 2014

If that's the pattern where you are, hire a night nurse to sleep on your sofa on Saturday while you clear off for the day. Night nurses are rabid when some asshole selling Jesus wakes them up and I guarandamntee they'll all be scared to death of your house within 6 weeks.

The Mormons cross the street when they get to my house.

What I hate about the door knockers is their arrogance about Jesus, that nobody outside their churches has ever heard about the real Jesus.

Still, the worst I've dealt with is a church that sent groups around to hospitals to pray over the patients in unlocked wards. It completely freaked the patients out and infuriated them, as well. I quite gleefully threatened them with trespassing charges if they didn't brush their asses out of the hospital RIGHT THEN. I've often wished I'd called the cops on them, but you never know, the cops might have gone to that lousy church. I guess I was scary enough, they didn't come back.

Trillo

(9,154 posts)
6. Thank you Warpy.
Sun Nov 23, 2014, 05:13 PM
Nov 2014

I cannot fathom the idea that sick folks in hospitals aren't even left alone by them, "relentless" is I guess the word that applies.

I have the ability to get mad or rabid at them as well, but for me, all that does is increase the flashbacks and the stress, then I burn up with adrenaline for awhile. Being "left alone" by evangelists should be a right everyone has, either at home, or in the hospital.

A Do Not Evangelize list might work, if such a thing would be legal, provided it has sufficient penalties for disobedience. A stiff fine would probably work, they are mostly trolling for money to support their church, I believe. Make it "too expensive" for them to knock on doors.... A couple grand for each incident might be sufficient penalty.

Mopar151

(9,992 posts)
10. Good for you!
Sun Nov 23, 2014, 05:22 PM
Nov 2014

For finding the Zen in The Way Of Skittles and kicking some righteous ass. Freedom FROM religion is an issue that could move some non-voters to the ballot box, if it were framed and themed correctly - I've already seen a bumper sticker from "the dark side" about this, and you know what is behind efforts to declare atheisim and "secular humanisim" as religions......

murielm99

(30,755 posts)
2. I don't know if you can do anything to stop them.
Sun Nov 23, 2014, 05:04 PM
Nov 2014

I understand what you are saying. We have gone to several churches here, over the last thirty-six years. Some of them have treated us very badly. My husband and I no longer want to attend any church. We both still believe in God, and consider ourselves Christians. It is the people and the institutions we do not care for. We both have had Christian educations, but not to the extent you have had. I guess we both have very mixed feelings about organized Christianity. Maybe it is a bit like politics and government. We have many good people trying to do their best for everyone. Yet they seem to be overwhelmed, especially right now, by the greedy and the incompetent.

The people who sold us our home were devout Catholics and very good people. They behaved the way Christians are meant to behave in all their dealings with others. When they remodeled this farmhouse, they had it blessed by a priest. We still have the plaque on the front door that has the blessing and the picture of the holy family. We polished it up and put it back up when we replaced the door. My husband thinks that many of the proselytizers stay away because they see the plaque. Maybe he is right.

I am not advocating this for you, and I do not mean to add further hurt. I find it somewhat ironic that this blessing seemingly keeps them away.

I hope you find something that keeps them from your property.

 

yeoman6987

(14,449 posts)
19. My Mom used to say to the Mormons,
Sun Nov 23, 2014, 07:15 PM
Nov 2014

Oh great. Come in. We are just getting ready to sit down and say the rosery. So funny as they could not run away fast enough. After a few times, we never had them at our door again.

Trillo

(9,154 posts)
20. Very interesting, not for me, however. Thank you, though.
Sun Nov 23, 2014, 07:38 PM
Nov 2014

It is an interesting idea, to label one's home with a Christian or Catholic mark in order to dissuade other evangelists. I knew some Catholics growing up, and yes, they were good people.

It seems to me like there should be some kind of restraining order, an enjoinder to all Christian churches, or something, that could be done to preempt their evangelism, with a penalty attached, so it is not just a toothless tiger. That's why I started thinking of a "Do Not Evangelize" list.

Perhaps I will continue to mull over your suggestion.

gordianot

(15,243 posts)
3. You have a right to tell them leave immediately if they do not you will deal with this as trespass.
Sun Nov 23, 2014, 05:10 PM
Nov 2014

No Solicitation signs are a good idea. After putting them on notice do not be shy.
I have three means of defense.
1. My telephone.
2. A baseball bat at the door.
3. Last resort force on home invasion in a secure place in the house (I expect the baseball bat to render the last resort unnecessary).

I also live in a stand your ground State for your property.

Trillo

(9,154 posts)
21. I agree with the sign, the problem is its phrasing.
Sun Nov 23, 2014, 07:52 PM
Nov 2014

They have ignored the prior sign, maybe the print was too small. Maybe it should say, "No Solicitation and No EVANGELIZING and No Church Invites" in big, capital letters. I hate being offensive, though sometimes it is necessary. Perhaps I should use multiple signs on the way up the walkway.

Thanks for your suggestions, I'm not really interested in threatening them physically, but I expect to be treated in the same way, and coming to my door and telling me all I need is Jesus and I'm saved is a threat to me, given the way they treated me when I was young in their private schools.

gordianot

(15,243 posts)
38. Do not be shy tell them you want them to leave and not come back do not engage in conversation.
Sun Nov 23, 2014, 11:24 PM
Nov 2014

In my 62 years I have never had to go beyond that at my door with the exception for someone I caught trying to break into my garage. On that occasion telling them to leave and if they do not you are calling law enforcement is/was sufficient. I have had Jehovah's witness do this on repeat, they eventually sent children to the door. On that occasion I told the kids to leave and tell their parents it is not safe to go up to strangers houses, it is dangerous. With kids walking through your yard I do not yell and on occasions tell them to leave.

tularetom

(23,664 posts)
4. I've never had one in the 26 years I've lived here
Sun Nov 23, 2014, 05:10 PM
Nov 2014

I'm on 40 acres and the house is at the end of a 500 foot driveway up a steep grade. The nearest house is 1/2 mile away on a lightly traveled county road. It just isn't worth the effort to them I guess, or maybe it's the "Caution - Rattlesnakes" sign I put up at the end of the drive.

Trillo

(9,154 posts)
22. Your lucky rattle! :0)
Sun Nov 23, 2014, 08:05 PM
Nov 2014

I don't have any fancy graphics, but mine would have to say, "Miniature attack panthers on prowl." (kitty cats). It would probably have the opposite effect.

You're probably right, they probably target poorer folks, they can reach more houses in any given period of time with less walking effort.

Mz Pip

(27,453 posts)
5. I have a peep hole in my door
Sun Nov 23, 2014, 05:12 PM
Nov 2014

I won't even open it if I don't know who it is.

On the rare occasions that they do catch me I politely say, "No thank you." The only time I ever had anyone pushy and obnoxious was with the Mormons. Really obnoxious dude. I had to just shut the door in his face.

I actually feel kind of sorry for them, having to go around pushing their religion so they can remain members of their community. It strikes me as being abusive. There are much better ways to spend your day then knocking on door trying to talk to people who really don't want to be bothered. I often wonder what their rate of success is.

okasha

(11,573 posts)
9. Just don't open your door to them.
Sun Nov 23, 2014, 05:19 PM
Nov 2014

It's simple and 100% effective.

Sorry. this didn't nest as intended. It's a reply to the OP.

Trillo

(9,154 posts)
23. Got your message. "Nobody home." Thanks.
Sun Nov 23, 2014, 08:17 PM
Nov 2014

It would be effective, if I was unaware of them even being at the door. Not responding to them, however, is an interesting response.

I'll still be reminded of their brethren's past cruelties, since I would know someone was at the door, and they were probably an evangelist. It's difficult to explain PTSD to someone who doesn't have it.

Jamastiene

(38,187 posts)
37. I understand what you mean.
Sun Nov 23, 2014, 10:50 PM
Nov 2014

I have it too, from being raped in the name of God. They will stop at nothing and are beyond cruel. I look at not answering them as a way to finally lock them out. Deep down, I know the truth is that they had better be glad lions are hard to come by and murder is illegal in my home town. I've had it with the Bible Belt, but cannot afford to move. I've felt cornered, caged, trapped, tortured and hated for so long by their pushiness and hatefulness, that I would have no remorse if I caused them mortal harm.

Trillo

(9,154 posts)
43. I'm sorry to read about your experience.
Mon Nov 24, 2014, 02:51 PM
Nov 2014

I don't believe you should have to move, in order to be left alone by bullies, or potential rapists bearing the Christian label. When you're in public, you might encounter them, but when you are in the privacy of your home, and even the privacy afforded by your front door, as well as any privacy afforded by any private property that may lie beyond those bounds, you should have the right to say no trespassing to them specifically, and feel safe that they are moral enough to respect your desires. That they do not, and routinely invade such boundaries, speaks volumes regarding law-abiding Christians routine lack of morality, though I prefer the term lack of ethics. If you have a note on your front door, and it says No Soliciting and No Religion, that should be enough to prevent a moral, ethical religious person to not knock, thereby invading your privacy and safety, and harming your health by triggering your past trauma.

You should have the right, and the legal power, to banish them from your premises, even in the "Bible Belt" and not have to keep banishing them by repeatedly having to tell them to leave. That is the essence of one form of their bullying. You should have the right, to tell them one time, "No," and never have to repeat that response ever again.

That they do not respect these boundaries, shows not only their lack of morality and ethics, but also the need for an official, "Do Not Evangelize" list, that they would be required to respect under the threat of legal penalty.

cbayer

(146,218 posts)
44. I sincerely hope that you find a way out.
Mon Nov 24, 2014, 03:02 PM
Nov 2014

Your rage is understandable. Not everyone is like that, and while I do not think you will or should forgive what has happened to you, I hope that you do meet people in the future that will offer you a different experience.

Schema Thing

(10,283 posts)
13. I can tell you their rate of success, for the JW's
Sun Nov 23, 2014, 05:43 PM
Nov 2014


is shockingly small relative to the hours spent door knocking. Like, about 6k hours per convert. And those converts seldom come from the door knocking work anyway!

And you're right, it is abusive and they do it mainly to remain accepted in their religious community. They tell themselves (and are told) it is a "lifesaving work", but obviously if that were their main concern they'd find a more productive way. The life they are primarily concerned with saving is their own.

Trillo

(9,154 posts)
33. Thank you for your thoughts.
Sun Nov 23, 2014, 09:59 PM
Nov 2014

Not opening the door could very well be the best course of action, but I was hoping for something a little more permanent. That wealthy folks can have "moats around their castles", effectively keeping evangelists at bay, is just another reminder of the inability our economic system provides to average folks to protect themselves from abusive groups, including Christians. It seems designed to parasitize the little folks, even when it comes to such ephemeral beliefs as to which god or gods do you believe in, or not believe in.

It would be nice to have some official way to keep the evangelists at bay, with their favorite form of censure built in, a punishment for crossing that moat.

Jamastiene

(38,187 posts)
36. I go one step further.
Sun Nov 23, 2014, 10:44 PM
Nov 2014

My friends and family know to call before they come. Otherwise, they don't get a response. They know not to knock on my door uninvited. Anybody else gets even less. There is no way I will open my door to strangers. If they knock continually and do not leave, I won't think twice about calling the police on them. You just about have to murder someone in my county to get arrested, but those uniforms and the lights on the car will make someone leave when I want them the hell off my property.

People who are proselytizing should be thankful I don't own a gun. I have less than zero patience for that crap. I, too, went through horrifying experiences at Christian school growing up AND in adulthood when I was in public. In the Bible Belt, they'll stop you in the grocery store and preach at you. Do the slightest thing they don't like and you hear about it. I keep my head down, get my shopping done and get the hell home. It's not safe for non-Christians where I live.

 

rug

(82,333 posts)
7. One woman from the local JW congregation made a point of visting the parish priest every week.
Sun Nov 23, 2014, 05:18 PM
Nov 2014

She was a former Catholic so I suppose she thought she could tell him why. Eventually, the priest sent a letter to the Kingdom Hall explicitly telling them he wanted no on coming to his home on JW business. That worked.

The woman told me the story during one of her three hour marathon visits with me. Personally, I make a point of talking with them until they say they have to leave. They come back much less frequently.

No Vested Interest

(5,167 posts)
41. OMG - You not only let them in, you give three hours of your time?
Mon Nov 24, 2014, 12:30 AM
Nov 2014

I don't even like unsolicited phone calls, let alone someone knocking on my door for any manner of "sales".
I believe my time is "my" time, and I'll waste in a manner that pleases me , not others.

edhopper

(33,606 posts)
8. Sadly i don't think you have
Sun Nov 23, 2014, 05:19 PM
Nov 2014

and legal way to stop them from knocking. These days freedom of religion to do what it wants seems to trump all other rights (except 2nd Amend.)
If it is one particular church more than lothers, you could contact the church and ask, saying it is for health reasons (you don't need to explain further)
What about putting a large satanic pentagram on your door, that might keep some away.

[img][/img]

Mopar151

(9,992 posts)
12. Liking the pentagram
Sun Nov 23, 2014, 05:30 PM
Nov 2014

It bears a slight resemblance to yours truly.... Which may be why I've largely kept them at bay for the 19 years I've lived here. 1 visit per crowd - they get the fable of Sam Kinison. Never come back....

Trillo

(9,154 posts)
31. You're coming to a razor's edge of closeness to my beliefs about their beliefs.
Sun Nov 23, 2014, 09:31 PM
Nov 2014

Not sure I want the label, myself. Just want to be left alone by folks who, I believe, are misled.

Schema Thing

(10,283 posts)
11. I was raised as a Jehovah's Witness
Sun Nov 23, 2014, 05:25 PM
Nov 2014

so I'll advise you:

Yes, you can ask to be put on a "do-not-call" list with the Witnesses, and that should stop most of their visits. They use an imperfect "territory card" which is a small map of your neighborhood, and you would be listed when they hand out that territory card. However, it's imperfect (it would be easy for the individual Witness to inadvertently miss your address listing and knock anyway). Also, after a period of time, they will feel like they need to check and see if you have moved or your disposition towards them has changed.

A "no soliciting" sign generally will not work because they don't consider themselves to be "soliciting" (and the courts agree with them on that).

A "No Jehovah's Witnesses" sign should actually work perfectly - and if not, add a line that says &quot I'm an Apostate)" and you'll be guaranteed not to be bothered. Jehovah's Witnesses consider those who once were of their faith, but no longer to believe it, to be the worst-of-the-worst. They would rather associate with a pedophile than an Apostate.


I'm guessing the same advice will work for Mormons as well, but I'm no expert there.

TlalocW

(15,389 posts)
15. Another thing you can do with JWs
Sun Nov 23, 2014, 06:06 PM
Nov 2014

A friend of mine did this when a family (mom, pop, and little daughter) showed up at her door. First she kept them on the porch, wouldn't let them in. She engaged them in light-hearted conversation for a few minutes then asked, "Is this beautiful little girl your daughter?" Ma and Pa JW beamed with pride and said yes. She got down on the kid's level to talk to her and said, "Aren't you pretty? I love your hair. Did you know your mommy and daddy are in a cult? When you're older, if you can find your way back here, I'll give you sanctuary."

Ma and Pa JW grabbed the kid and lit out of there, stopping long enough in the middle of the street to make some mystic hand signs at her house. What's more, whatever imperfect territory card they were using at their local Kingdom Hall must have been updated pretty well with warnings to stay away from her house as she has not been bothered by them since (going on 2 decades).

TlalocW

Trillo

(9,154 posts)
25. I'm interested in what the courts have said.
Sun Nov 23, 2014, 08:54 PM
Nov 2014

An internal do-not-call list is fine with me. This most recent one was Baptists, however. As far as I'm concerned, they're all slightly different shades of the same flawed theology. The private Christian schools I attended always asserted they were "non-denominational." It was a long time ago, but honestly, I'm surprised to find out that 40 years later the pain is still there like it happened yesterday.

I'm interested in the courts, but am not familiar with what the courts have said. Did they address a situation where there was an official "Do Not Evangelize list" (or equivalent)? Once there's been a prior preference stated, I would think it's a different situation from one in which it is presumed all doors are acceptable to knock on. In the latter case, it would seem a freedom of speech issue. Once a designated and officially recognized preference has been placed on record, I wonder if the courts would rule the same.(?)

Do you know the name of that court decision or decisions?

Schema Thing

(10,283 posts)
67. I don't.
Sun Nov 30, 2014, 01:11 PM
Nov 2014

But I would think the internal do-not-call list has been litigated more than a few times. Probably comes down to a court saying, "don't go to that house anymore w/o checking that this person no longer lives there, savvy?". And them saying "yeah, we savvy" and (probably) not going there again. A lot of work for what most people consider a minor inconvenience.


That is surprising that you feel pain 40 years on. From my experience, total immersive deconstruction of my past beliefs and the people and organization that had pressed those beliefs into me from childhood on, got me past my past, as it were. The only pain I have now is from the physical and emotional realities of my family shunning me due to their ongoing captivity in that cult. Which is of course, a lot of pain. But it's external, so much easier to deflect.

Trillo

(9,154 posts)
68. PTSD is primarily internal.
Mon Dec 1, 2014, 11:45 AM
Dec 2014

Had it happened in the military from battle, I'd likely have a disability income. The flashbacks are spontaneous and largely uncontrollable. Fortunately there aren't that many years left, at most a couple of decades for an average lifetime. Eliminating as many external triggers as possible is a management strategy.

At the time I had an undiagnosed food allergy, a food which is ubiquitous, generally considered by nutritionists to be essential to a balanced diet, so it is put in a lot of foods that don't require it. I presume due to histamine-invoked cortisol (also associated with PTSD), which reportedly alters memories, enhancing recall of fear memories, and making regular memory recall more difficult (good times are difficult to recall, all that's easily remembered are traumatic occurrences), my experience was perceived as more traumatic than it otherwise might have been.

After the Christian trauma, I got no healing support afterward at home, even though my parents were both secular, health-care professionals. They were only one generation removed from devout Christians, they probably hadn't yet taken the further step of considering it an intentionally-harmful and immoral religion, I think they likely thought I was just a bad kid (awful teenager). It was best at home to keep my mouth shut, there was more peace that way.

I've deconstructed the experience countless times, and all I keep coming back to is unjust punishment at the hands of Christian adults who should have known better. They covered their behinds by lying, particularly hypocritical since their honor code was supposedly sacrosanct (only for the kids, I learned not the adults in charge). Administration cared only about honor in regards to their actions insofar as it would bolster their perceived integrity for their big lies, like when they told all our parents there was no hazing tolerated, when the truth was that during our first year all kids were systematically hazed. Some 5-7 years later or so they started sending an alumnus magazine to me, trolling for donations, seemingly oblivious to the fact they had banished me. Looking at the pictures were a major trigger for yet more flashbacks. It was like they were intentionally psychologically torturing me from afar. Just a bunch of bullies with no empathy at all, and certainly no remorse. The "so responsible" Christians didn't assume responsibility, instead they lied like their financial lives depended on it.

The Christians had more than a reasonable opportunity to prove to me theirs was a religion of integrity, that they were fair minded and just as Christians, but they failed spectacularly. I broke no explicit rules, yet I received their severest law-abiding punishment.

Today's Christians' lack of respect of a "No Soliciting" sign merely confirms their continuing lack of responsibility, as well as demonstrating their on-high evasiveness when it comes to the parsing of language. It's a repeating pattern with them, they're still absorbing or usurping other religions where they can, so they haven't yet learned their Pagan self-lesson from centuries ago.

I was not physically raped, I was psychologically raped, and quite honestly, I too am surprised to find that so much time has passed and the PTSD triggers still occur, occasionally in severe form. I do get irritated, sometimes enraged when they come to do the door: they forcibly teach me banishment as a kid, then refuse to accept my banishment as an adult, what a bunch of relentless hypocrites.

If Christian organizations were responsible, they'd get together with a non-religious nonprofit organization which could host such a Do-Not-Evangelize list, keep it updated, and coordinate their activities so Christians do not "disturb the peace" of those who reject their unethical, privacy-invading, disrespectful, and child-abusing religion.

TlalocW

(15,389 posts)
14. Get a bigger sign and put it in the middle of the door
Sun Nov 23, 2014, 06:01 PM
Nov 2014

Put on there: Warning: Those Coming Here Hoping to Evangelize Me May Do So but Only After Hearing My Beliefs.

They won't be so eager to knock on your door anymore.

TlalocW

Trillo

(9,154 posts)
24. I have done that in the past.
Sun Nov 23, 2014, 08:26 PM
Nov 2014

I'm not reserved enough in my speech, however, and I really don't want to be so offensive as my thoughts tend to lead my speech and I'm not good at self-censoring. Which seems to be your point.

Maybe next time I'll tell them what I really think. Hope they don't hit me.

Thanks for your advice.

AtheistCrusader

(33,982 posts)
16. That would be nice. These assholes refuse to understand what 'no soliciting' means.
Sun Nov 23, 2014, 06:14 PM
Nov 2014

"We're not selling anything"

Like hell they aren't.

Trillo

(9,154 posts)
27. Yes, that is the primary issue. Lack of respect.
Sun Nov 23, 2014, 09:07 PM
Nov 2014

They refuse to respect non-Christian desires, in this case, to be left alone. Yet another reason their religion is flawed.

It could very well be that explicit contempt is the only way to manage this. It would be nice if there was another, gentler way.

Mnemosyne

(21,363 posts)
17. I leave their literature in the door and keep moving it around so they think already been hit. If
Sun Nov 23, 2014, 06:25 PM
Nov 2014

that fails, as it did with the Baptists during dumbya's reign of error, I asked them who they voted for and when they proudly proclaimed idiot son, I told them to get the fuck off my property. They never came back. Guess they missed the Impeach and Iraq casualty number signs in my yard.

Trillo

(9,154 posts)
29. I've done that in the long-ago past "get the fuck outta here"
Sun Nov 23, 2014, 09:10 PM
Nov 2014

but they keep coming back. Maybe I should make a collage of their literature on the front door, with a big red X on it. I'm glad it works for you. Thanks for your thoughts.

okasha

(11,573 posts)
40. If they keep coming back after being told to stay away,
Mon Nov 24, 2014, 12:15 AM
Nov 2014

they are harassing you. Their behavior might also qualify as stalking, depending on your location. A cease-and-desist letter from an attorney to the church authorities should do the job.

Trillo

(9,154 posts)
46. I think yours is a good idea.
Mon Nov 24, 2014, 03:48 PM
Nov 2014

I don't live in the Bible Belt, but our miniature version of it in our particular county. The same individuals do not come by, but different folks from the same church do, as well as different folks from several different churches. I believe it is "a bottom-up strategy" they employ to evade harassment charges. When viewed from a top down perspective, it is all coming from a small handful of places and top leaders.

I've just purchased a couple of larger signs, and will be putting more notices on the way up my walkway. Should that not work, then I will escalate my response further, perhaps including the attorney route at some point.

I still think a Do Not Evangelize list is the best idea.

Trillo

(9,154 posts)
62. What about a Christain who invades my home or room?
Wed Nov 26, 2014, 06:26 PM
Nov 2014

On the other hand, if it was a home invasion,
I'd only expect to be arrested if "I" opened the closed front door naked.
On the other hand, IF a Christian evangelist were instead of knocking on my front door, found the door unlocked, opened it, and walked inside, I'd fully expect them to find me naked, perhaps just out of the shower, perhaps lounging around, who knows. I'm sure the law would not find me at fault in this latter case, of what is essentially a home invasion.

I don't recall this ever happening in the context of a Christian evangelist seeking church members, however, it did happen once to me when I was a kid, my bedroom door was shut, it was after hours, someone opened the closed door, barged in, found me naked, and I did not react poorly, I was a reasonably peaceful and happy kid. After this incident, and because of it, I suffered the worst punishment I've ever received, given to my by a not a single, but a group of Christian adults, one that haunts me even several decades later. The punishment was greater than I could have ever imagined. I have struggled with happiness ever since, my joy of life was taken from me on that day, evidently for the rest of my years.

To this day, I sleep naked, and plan to continue doing so. I do not tolerate Christian evangelists in my life. If a Christian wants to be my friend, that's okay. If they want to evangelize to me, I have a highly limited tolerance for it, provided they are already a friend. If they want to punish me by invading my privacy for whatever legal activity I may be doing in private behind closed doors, then they deserve a whole lot of hell, and I'll give it to them now, because the peaceful route didn't work. If any Christian wants to invite me to a church, it is absolutely out of the question.

I do not want Christian evangelists on my property period

PDJane

(10,103 posts)
28. I live downtown in Toronto. I've not been bothered with them for ages.
Sun Nov 23, 2014, 09:07 PM
Nov 2014

We do have one living in the building, but she's been informed, apparently, that she cannot proselytize here, for which I am so grateful.

Curmudgeoness

(18,219 posts)
34. They used to come to my house frequently.
Sun Nov 23, 2014, 10:27 PM
Nov 2014

I am not sure how I got on the "don't bother with her" list, but they never come near my house again. Although I would have loved to tell them to "get the fuck off my property", all I have ever said to any of them is "I am not interested in your cult", then shut the door. But they don't even come at all any more. I have also refused to even touch the literature that they would try to hand me.

I had to repeat this for a few times, probably to different cults, but it has been years since they have knocked.

Good luck.

Trillo

(9,154 posts)
47. It seems the best outcomes such as yours
Mon Nov 24, 2014, 03:59 PM
Nov 2014

are frequently accompanied by some degree of expression of contempt, i.e., "cult". In a peaceful society of moral folks, such expressions shouldn't be necessary to respect others, but it is good to know such contempt works.

Personally, I do not feel safe when they are on my property, particularly since I have told so many of them I do not want them on it.

Dorian Gray

(13,499 posts)
35. I am sorry
Sun Nov 23, 2014, 10:38 PM
Nov 2014

you are experiencing this. I am lucky. In my life, I've had five knocks on my door from evangelists. (All Jehova's Witnesses.) That includes two during my childhood in NJ, 1 in Hong Kong, and 2 in NYC. A few more passers by have stopped to hand things to me (other denominations), and then there are the street preachers or subway end of timesers. But, in my own personal space, it hasn't happened.

I think that I would put a clear sign out front expressly stating no religious soliciters are welcome. And then I would most likely not answer the door. Obviously that's only what I would choose to do, and you may not want to for your own reasons. It's an inconvenience not answering your door if you are expecting packages.

Trillo

(9,154 posts)
48. Thank you.
Mon Nov 24, 2014, 04:08 PM
Nov 2014

I am in the process of obtaining more signs. Since they have shown they can't read English, or don't respect the English they do read, I'm getting some pictorial graphics as well, just in case it is the former and not the latter.

The issue as I see it is they do not respect the wishes of others, that is why it appears they cannot read plain English and understand what "No Soliciting" means. So, yes, the language used needs to be changed.

An official Do Not Evangelize list, with penalty attached, may be the only solution.

Dorian Gray

(13,499 posts)
51. I think other people suggested contacting the churches directly
Mon Nov 24, 2014, 04:30 PM
Nov 2014

Writing them a letter MIGHT help.

But it's not cool that you are subjected to continued harassment when you've asked them to stop. Not cool at all.

malokvale77

(4,879 posts)
39. I have a sign next to my door that reads...
Sun Nov 23, 2014, 11:44 PM
Nov 2014

If My SMOKING Bothers You - Don't BREATH.

It seems to do the trick.

malokvale77

(4,879 posts)
61. Don't forget the part...
Tue Nov 25, 2014, 07:36 PM
Nov 2014

in the case of them ignoring the warning, where you blow the smoke directly in their face.

I keep a pack next to the door and always light up before answering to strangers.

Having a very protective dog doesn't hurt either. I always ask them if they want me to unlatch the door to let them in.

I like to play with them. I look like such a sweet little old lady. I'm not.

I don't take kindly to people disturbing my place of peace.

Prophet 451

(9,796 posts)
42. Legally, I'm afraid I don't see anything that could be done
Mon Nov 24, 2014, 02:14 AM
Nov 2014

Door-to-door proselytizing is very rare here (UK). I rarely have them knock at my door more than once or twice a year. Occasionally, they set up a stall in teh city centre and try wheedling passersby into discussion but that's abou tit.

Trillo

(9,154 posts)
50. You're lucky, or there is some kind of cultural difference.
Mon Nov 24, 2014, 04:24 PM
Nov 2014

I'm in the U.S. so it sounds like you have a healthier religious situation than we have here. There are also differences here between poorer and wealthier neighborhoods in regards to such activities.

Here in the U.S., my experience has been that they target poorer folks, in fact I typed in "No evangelizing" (exactly that) to Google, and found the results quite revealing. Those results show the futility of asking them to leave me and other poor folks alone, they consider it their duty to impose themselves on others not of their faith and particularly the poor not of their faith.

That is why I am thinking about the need for an official Do Not Evangelize list, one that has a legal penalty attached. Right now there doesn't seem to be such a solution.



Prophet 451

(9,796 posts)
56. It's a cultural difference
Mon Nov 24, 2014, 05:04 PM
Nov 2014

Ever since WW1 (when churches abused their position to convince people to enlist with massive casualties), religion has been seen as an intensely personal matter here. It's considered a faux pas to ask about someone's faith unless you know them very well. The result is that, while we have plenty of believers, it's simply not discussed except among family or close friends. Celebrations like Xmas and Easter continue but mostly as secular celebrations. My father is a Taoist and, other than recommending The Tao Of Pooh to me when I was in my seeker phase, we've never discussed it.

Your list sounds like a decent idea, I'd be interested to see if it would be possible to put something like that together.

cbayer

(146,218 posts)
45. I'm not sure there is a legal solution, but I would try a few things.
Mon Nov 24, 2014, 03:12 PM
Nov 2014

I would put a Beware of guard dog sign in the yard or on the door.

I would call the organizations directly to complain and tell them that under no circumstances do you want any visits. Keep harassing them until it stops and make sure you talk to whoever is in charge.

When I lived in a place where this occurred, I would look out the window in an obvious way, then just walk away from the door.

I now live in a place where no one every comes around to evangelize. We also didn't get counted in the census because we are invisible to most people, lol.

Trillo

(9,154 posts)
52. Thank you for your suggestions.
Mon Nov 24, 2014, 04:31 PM
Nov 2014

I am in the process of implementing some of them, with plans to escalate the matter along similar lines as you have suggested. I have to avoid them, as they are very toxic to me, and frankly I do not understand why, when we pay so much every month to have a place to live and a presumption of privacy there, that they feel it's their duty and right to invade.

I am also continuing to think of a more official Do Not Evangelize list. It seems there is some need for one.

cbayer

(146,218 posts)
54. Glad you are pursing possible solutions. Honestly I don't like anyone
Mon Nov 24, 2014, 04:41 PM
Nov 2014

coming to the door. I don't like those with political causes, those selling candy for their baseball team or those who want a petition signed. Religious or not, I don't want them to intrude. I don't even like it when friends come over unannounced, lol.

I would love a Do Not Disturb list similar to the ones that we have for the telephone, but I would never just limit it to evangelizing.

No Vested Interest

(5,167 posts)
53. Have you considered a security system (motion sensor or camera) and a sign
Mon Nov 24, 2014, 04:34 PM
Nov 2014

that violators of your privacy will be reported to authorities?

While a "Do Not Evangelize" list may be desirable, the effort to get one in place requires the support of others - local officials, etc.-
which might not be so easily or quickly obtained.

Good luck in your efforts.

Trillo

(9,154 posts)
63. That's an interesting phrase.
Wed Nov 26, 2014, 06:31 PM
Nov 2014

"Violators of my privacy will be reported to authorities".

I like it, I may use it. Thanks.

Regarding elected officials, I'd fully expect them to continue allowing it to be difficult for evangelists to contact any but the poor, they allow the wealthy to have multiple levels of security, some similar to what you mention, video recording, etc., as well as big walls around their place which aren't allowed in poorer neighborhoods, the wealthy even have employees to answer their doors for them.

longship

(40,416 posts)
55. I get occasional proselytizers way out here in the woods, where next to nobody lives.
Mon Nov 24, 2014, 04:56 PM
Nov 2014

They ring the bell. Sometimes just an old guy handing out the Watchtower. More often two guys dressed the same, like Bobbsie Twins (Mormons). And other miscellaneous.

Mostly I am polite. Anybody resorting to going door to door way out here is clearly desperate. Most of my nearby neighbors are fairly reverent church goers. One is a Seventh Day Adventist, a super nice guy, BTW. I cannot see the door knockers getting very far with them, and certainly not with me.

There was a time when I would chat them up a bit, never inviting them inside. But these days I generally politely tell them I am not interested and bid them a "have a nice day."

However, a couple of women kind of pissed me off last month. They rang the bell and I opened the door to, "we want to talk to you about Jesus." I politely demurred and wished them a pleasant day. On their way to the car one of the women blurted out an impolite religious question to me. It pissed me off and I yelled back, "I am an atheist. Get the hell off my property and don't ever return."

I generally am polite because anybody knocking doors out here is in purgatory already. But sometimes I get a little door knocker rage.

Regards.

Trillo

(9,154 posts)
64. I do believe there are bigger issues that as a people we have to deal with
Wed Nov 26, 2014, 06:38 PM
Nov 2014

than evangelists going door to door. The people in Ferguson being mistreated, and murdered, by the police, is but one of them.

As far as I'm concerned, their bible was literally edited or written by humans with darkness in their hearts. I simply do not want Christian evangelists on my property. If they've made it to the front door, they've gone too far already.

A do not evangelize list would solve my issue with them.

nichomachus

(12,754 posts)
57. My friend was getting visit from Mormon boys
Mon Nov 24, 2014, 05:18 PM
Nov 2014

Finally, he asked them, "Are you Mormons?" They eagerly said "Yes." He said, "Does that mean a blow job is out of the question?"

None never came back.

Trillo

(9,154 posts)
65. Wouldn't be my style, anyway.
Wed Nov 26, 2014, 06:40 PM
Nov 2014

I think it would be impolite to ask that of anyone but someone already a friend.

Trillo

(9,154 posts)
66. A little on the aggressive side for me.
Wed Nov 26, 2014, 06:50 PM
Nov 2014

But thanks for your suggestion. It probably is legal to post, but for me personally it would probably be misleading, as I'd only stop myself from arresting them if they hadn't already entered uninvited. I'd love to put fencing around the place, but am not allowed to by zoning, and it's pretty expensive to do.

I still favor the Do Not Evangelize list. Precedent has already been set by the Do Not Call list. I don't know if it would run afoul of the First Amendment. It might.

A non-profit organization could host such a list, but without the teeth of a legal penalty for violating it, Christian evangelists have already proven to me they could care less about my personal wishes to be left alone by them.

trotsky

(49,533 posts)
60. There is indeed a legal solution.
Tue Nov 25, 2014, 10:42 AM
Nov 2014

You post a regular "No Solicitors" sign. That includes religious proselytizers.

When one rings your doorbell, call the police. Feel free to engage (stall) them while the police are coming. When the police arrive, point to your sign, and go back in your house.

If they didn't know what "No Solicitors" meant, they'll know after that.

struggle4progress

(118,332 posts)
69. "I put up a really big NO FISHING sign but fuggin illiterate a-holes still knock my door!"
Mon Dec 1, 2014, 11:58 AM
Dec 2014

"Soliciting" usually refers to activities such as door-to-door magazine sales, though in some localities various non-commercial activities might also be defined as "soliciting." Where I live, you have to get a permit to "solicit" -- but that law covers hawking wares on the street or door-to-door: it doesn't refer to (say) door-knocking to proselytize

I knock lots of doors during election season, and I just ignore "No Soliciting" signs. I'm not "soliciting." There's no legal force here in a "No Soliciting" sign. And somebody with a "No Soliciting" is as likely as anyone else thank me for knocking and to offer me a bottle of cold water for my efforts. I don't ignore all signs: if you obviously don't want to see me, I have other doors to knock and don't want to spend time on your doorstep. If the sign says "Posted: Keep Out!" then I don't set foot on the property. If you put a sign on your door that says "Don't Knock: Sleeping Baby" or "If we don't know you, don't ring our bell" or "Day-Sleeper: Do Not Disturb" or "No Magazine Sales! No Politics! No Religion!" then I won't knock or ring the bell. Here and there I run into some crazies who fly into rages because I rang the bell; and usually there's no sign in the yard or on the door indicating I shouldn't ring

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