Religion
Related: About this forumtrotsky
(49,533 posts)rogerashton
(3,920 posts)The usual resource can be relied on
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transhumanism
Transhumanism (abbreviated as H+ or h+) is an international cultural and intellectual movement with an eventual goal of fundamentally transforming the human condition by developing and making widely available technologies to greatly enhance human intellectual, physical, and psychological capacities.
This is sort of a joke -- at least I think it is -- but I have said that the transhumanist view on drugging in sports is that if you won't take the dope you need to win then you don't deserve to win.
Not exactly a religion but seems to address some of the same issues.
Warren Stupidity
(48,181 posts)the rapid progress in limb replacement technology, and the interesting experiments in 3d organ printing. There is serious stuff going on, there is also a lot of bullshit.
LostOne4Ever
(9,289 posts)Warren Stupidity
(48,181 posts)theists generally want the whole subject to go away as it assumes that consciousness is material and not some divine blessing.
AtheistCrusader
(33,982 posts)enough to understand that our consciousness rises from entirely material organs.
I'd go so far as to call it willful stupidity to pretend otherwise.
Warren Stupidity
(48,181 posts)are pretty much the nail in the coffin of non-materialism.
rogerashton
(3,920 posts)LTX
(1,020 posts)independently generates all of the content that comes out of it because it broke last week and now nothing comes out of it.
AtheistCrusader
(33,982 posts)If not, then the analogy is bullshit.
LTX
(1,020 posts)which in turn behaves in a consistent, predictable manner. Similarly, I can alter a simple transistor radio to consistently and predictably pick up air traffic control. While the analogy was (and is) tongue in cheek, I still think you are overstating the case for physicality.
trotsky
(49,533 posts)One of these:
Warren Stupidity
(48,181 posts)I guess there was no honest desire to discuss TH in that one. I'm shocked.
notadmblnd
(23,720 posts)it is a movement that advocates the improvement of humanity via technology. I don't know a lot about it, but I don't see how it has any relation to Christmas?
Kalidurga
(14,177 posts)notadmblnd
(23,720 posts)I don't see that.
AtheistCrusader
(33,982 posts)I'd start with this talk here. She can do things, I cannot. That's awesome.
http://www.ted.com/talks/aimee_mullins_prosthetic_aesthetics
Warren Stupidity
(48,181 posts)The "its all bullshit" approach has to redefine that as "not part of what we're talking about".
edhopper
(33,591 posts)then via the web , he could visit every boy and girl in one night, provided they have internet access.
Warren Stupidity
(48,181 posts)Thanks Obama for wrecking Christmas with your transhuman santa claus.
edhopper
(33,591 posts)is a naughty country anyway.
NeoGreen
(4,031 posts)Is Trans-humanism just another name for a process of embracing Kurzweil's Singularity concept?
Warren Stupidity
(48,181 posts)NeoGreen
(4,031 posts)...just an intellectually derived substitution for heaven?
Just another expression of the human desire to live forever?
Cute, but just another desperate attempt (albeit with technology) to create a framework of false hope for immortality?
Warren Stupidity
(48,181 posts)You are probably referring to consciousness portability, which would in fact raise practical issues of relative immortality.
NeoGreen
(4,031 posts)...isn't necessarily a separately derived conscience, but an melding of all existing human consciences into a machine/digital framework.
Everyone who is alive (biologically) at the the the singularity is created can opt to be part of that entity and "live forever" (some restrictions may apply).
(apologies for my low response rate, my wifi is overheating again and I am losing bandwidth)
Warren Stupidity
(48,181 posts)The technological singularity hypothesis is that accelerating progress in technologies will cause a runaway effect wherein artificial intelligence will exceed human intellectual capacity and control, thus radically changing or even ending civilization in an event called the singularity.[1] Because the capabilities of such an intelligence may be impossible to comprehend, the technological singularity is an occurrence beyond which events are predictable or even fathomable.[2]
The first use of the term "singularity" in this context was by mathematician John von Neumann. In 1958, regarding a summary of a conversation with von Neumann, Stanislaw Ulam described "ever accelerating progress of technology and changes in the mode of human life, which gives the appearance of approaching some essential singularity in the history of the race beyond which human affairs, as we know them, could not continue".[3] The term was popularized by science fiction writer Vernor Vinge, who argues that artificial intelligence, human biological enhancement, or braincomputer interfaces could be possible causes of the singularity.[4] Futurist Ray Kurzweil cited von Neumann's use of the term in a foreword to von Neumann's classic The Computer and the Brain.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Technological_singularity
However consciousness portability is part of TH. Note that if the technological singularity happens it is quite likely that we will have to concede that machines are in fact conscious, that consciousness is quite obviously material, and that a consciousness can be both "located" and "relocated" in machines. It would be odd indeed if machines achieved relative immortality and consciousness but we were stuck in our unrelocatable meat machine brains. It could happen, it would be ironic.
NeoGreen
(4,031 posts)...god(s)? Up to the point just before it comes into being, and then does it (the God concept) become irrelevant?
Warren Stupidity
(48,181 posts)If you mean "supernatural entity", no. "the machines" will just be smarter than we are. We may not understand what they are doing or how they are doing it, but they won't be supernatural entities.
By the way it may already have happened. How would we know?
NeoGreen
(4,031 posts)...not sure what I mean either.
Have to munch on this for a bit.
rug
(82,333 posts)Today he's also pimping the racist sociobiologist Edward O. Wilson.
http://reasonandmeaning.com/2014/12/23/science-explains-religion/
I have no idea why anyone would post his crap here.
edhopper
(33,591 posts)A racist?
I am aware of sociobiology, but not a racial remarks by him.
rug
(82,333 posts)Arthur Jensen, Richard Herrnstein and William Shockley were part of a big push in the 70s arguing that IQ tests demonstrated African Americans are less intelligent than Caucasians. Wilson added genetic explanations. Much more vile than woo.
edhopper
(33,591 posts)Didn't know Wilson was part of that.
That's really bad.
edhopper
(33,591 posts)Wilson agreed with Schockley, Jensen and Murray.
I can only find places where he is portrayed as a Democrat with strong conservation ideals.
rug
(82,333 posts)advocacy that genetically determined intelligence resulted in inferiority and superiority within human populations.
In many ways, Wilson's use of genetics to describe unalterable group traits, as well as his conclusions, are much more far-reaching and damaging than simple intelligence testing.
Here's one critique. http://www.prospectmagazine.co.uk/science-and-technology/edward-wilson-social-conquest-earth-evolutionary-errors-origin-species
If you want to go to the beginning of the controversy, this is a good start: http://www.nybooks.com/articles/archives/1975/nov/13/against-sociobiology/?insrc=toc
AtheistCrusader
(33,982 posts)rug
(82,333 posts)AtheistCrusader
(33,982 posts)If not, then he is simply a data point, in that he has an opinion on the subject.
I have opinions as well. That doesn't mean I agree with Messerly in any fashion.
(Edit: That is slightly facetious, I know full well the concept is older than his entire lifespan. Nor does transhumanism imply or require eugenics anyway.)
Jim__
(14,077 posts)Wilson was raised in the American south and has stated that he was raised a racist. He long ago left those views behind. He has made unfortunate remarks about eugenics, however, even those remarks were tempered by an admission of a current ignorance that prevents any implementation of such a program.
An excerpt from The Evolutionary Ethics of E O Wilson:
I'd like to hear if you have a stronger case to make that Wilson is a racist.
rug
(82,333 posts)You can get more flavor from this, decidedly unflattering, critique:
http://tomweston.net/rosent.htm
And this is where his reputation resides today, compliments of the WSJ:
http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB10001424052702303626804579506012946655636
It appears to me there is a reason why transhumanists admire him.
Jim__
(14,077 posts)I know that some people claim that Wilson is a racist. They base that claim on inferences they draw from what he says, not on any direct statement from him. People who believe that a eugenics program is necessarily racist seem to be making some racist assumptions. Can you cite a statement by Wilson that is racist? I scanned the articles and didn't see one. I disagree with Wilson on any number of questions. However, I consider him to be a scientist trying to learn the truth through research. I don't believe that he has any racist intentions and I haven't seen any racism in his writings that I've read. The articles that you cited didn't change my mind.
The conclusion to the Guardian Profile:
"He is," says Ian McEwan, "a scientific materialist who warmly embraces the diversity of human achievement - including religion and art, which he sees in evolutionary terms. One of his tasks has been to further the Enlightenment project of absorbing the social sciences into science proper; another has been to find a sound ethical basis for ecological thinking. He is fundamentally a rational optimist who shows us the beauty of the narrative of life on earth. He is living proof that materialism need not be a bleak world view."
You can't believe this is any kind of scholarship, from Rosenthal:
I can't get to the Wall Street Journal article without a subscription.
rug
(82,333 posts)Are you asking for a statement from Wilson that "I am a racist?" Or a passage akin to Mein Kampf?
You may find his discussion of democratically contrived eugenics" on page 198 of On Human Nature to be of interest.
The "inferences" are conclusions based on his work. Endorsements from Diamond, Dawkins and McEwan notwithstanding.
The social Darwinism that Wilson, even to this day, promotes was the ideological cover for the European empires and sounds so much more reasonable than "white man's burden".
Jim__
(14,077 posts)A statement by Wilson that he believes in the white man's burden would suffice.
Are you calling Wilson a racist because you have heard other people make that charge? Or, are you calling Wilson a racist because of something you have heard him say or seen in his writing? If it's something that you have heard him say or have seen in his writing, please repeat those statements here so that people can judge the accuracy of your claim. If you have to refer to a whole book or a chapter in a book, then you are basing your charge on inferences that you are making rather than on any direct statements that he has made. If you are aware of racist statements that he has made, you should be able to repeat those statements here.
Let's be honest. A racist can interpret the Sermon on the Mount as supporting his position. After all, it divides the world into the Blessed and, by implication, the not-so Blessed - clearly us and them. Does a racist interpretation of the Sermon imply that Jesus was a racist? Few people, hearing the words of this sermon, would conclude that it is racist. That is why I would like to hear Wilson's own words that mark him as a racist.
rug
(82,333 posts)Jim__
(14,077 posts)A very brief excerpt:
He continues by coming out in favor of universal human rights based on the need for individual freedom and the consequences of long term inequities. Then states that that the need for a universal human rights movement will be more compelling than any rationalization contrived by culture to reinforce and euphemize it.
rug
(82,333 posts)That passage follows his comments about " T)ruly exceptional individuals, weak or strong" being the result of random selection. He proposes gene pools, (democratically controlled I'm sure) presumably to eliminate the weak and promote the strong.
It's raw eugenics and it's racist, regardless of what a fine fellow he is.
Jim__
(14,077 posts)I'm sorry, there is no racism explicit or implicit in that paragraph. He's arguing that we can't predict where genius will arise. And, as I said, he then goes on to argue for universal human rights. If this book, chapter, paragraph is why you think Wilson is racist, then your opinion is clearly based on a misunderstanding of what he is saying.
rug
(82,333 posts)Jim__
(14,077 posts)Re-read the paragraph. Then read the next paragraph.
rug
(82,333 posts)And that's what he proposed. Notwithstanding how many rational ants he posits.
Jim__
(14,077 posts)Do you believe that eugenics sees diversity as a cardinal value? Do you really believe that eugenics can be a part of a universal human rights movement?
rug
(82,333 posts)No, eugenics is not at all compatible with human rights.
So, why is he advocating democratically contrived eugenics?
rug
(82,333 posts)Jim__
(14,077 posts)rug
(82,333 posts)Jim__
(14,077 posts)Not ever because the realization that the universal human rights movement has a raw biological causation which is compelling will make us accede to it. A universal human rights movement that will outlaw any eugenics program.
LTX
(1,020 posts)Humanist_Activist
(7,670 posts)and for no better reason than to disrupt.