Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member Latest Breaking News General Discussion The DU Lounge All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search

cbayer

(146,218 posts)
Mon Jan 5, 2015, 11:43 AM Jan 2015

Secular and Proud of It - Book Review

http://www.wsj.com/articles/book-review-atheist-awakening-by-richard-cimino-and-christopher-smith-1420408360

Atheists in America are anxious about their status, eager for acceptance and struggling to sort out the core assumptions of their unbelief.

By NAOMI SCHAEFER RILEY
Jan. 4, 2015 4:52 p.m. ET

On a recent episode of the CBS show “The Good Wife,” Alicia Florrick, played by Julianna Margulies, is considering a run for state’s attorney. She has plenty of skeletons in her closet, not least of which is serving as the lawyer for an organized-crime boss. But her political consultant tells her that there is really only one thing that will end her political career before it starts: her professed atheism. So when she sits down with a local religious leader for an interview and he asks about her faith, she tells him that she is “struggling.”

That word could probably be used to describe a lot of atheists these days. The decline of religious affiliation (particularly among young people) would seem to offer a recruiting opportunity for nonbelievers. And best-selling works by the so-called New Atheists (Richard Dawkins and Sam Harris, among others) suggest a broad receptivity to the secular outlook. But according to the latest Pew Survey, only about 2.4% of Americans identify themselves as atheists. And according to a survey conducted by Richard Cimino and Christopher Smith —a sociologist at the University of Richmond and an independent researcher, respectively—more than half of American atheists believe that they are “still discriminated against.”

In “Atheist Awakening,” Messrs. Cimino and Smith track the current state of the atheist community, such as it is, using interviews, surveys and field reporting. The portrait they draw reveals a diffuse group that is struggling to sort out the core assumptions of its unbelief. It is also a group anxious about its status in society and keen to coalesce into a movement. “Increasingly,” the authors write, “secularists have identified themselves with other minorities in America, even borrowing from the gay rights movement as they seek to come out of the closet and claim an atheist identity among their families, friends and the public in general.” In an interview on CNN, Mr. Dawkins went so far as to say: “I think we’re in the same position the gay movement was in a few decades ago. There was a need for people to come out.”

And so, in the grand tradition of identity politics, atheists have attempted to mount public displays of solidarity. The Reason Rally, held in Washington in 2012, attracted about 10,000 people, “most likely the largest atheist gathering in American history,” the authors write. As the crowd gathered, a band started things off with a song that “lampooned the belief in ‘Jesus coming again,’ mixing it with sexual innuendo.” Other songs also made fun of religion, and a costumed figure of Jesus danced in the crowd. “We’re not here to bash anyone’s faith, but if it happens, it happens,” said the master of ceremonies, comedian Paul Provenza. Messrs. Cimino and Smith, who attended the rally for their research, offer a vivid account of it without commenting on its tone. One can’t help thinking that the gay-rights movement did not see the public ridiculing of heterosexuals as a centerpiece of its strategy.

more at link
11 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
Secular and Proud of It - Book Review (Original Post) cbayer Jan 2015 OP
WSJ paywall. AtheistCrusader Jan 2015 #1
This may work. Jim__ Jan 2015 #2
"If atheists are going to sharpen their position ... they will surely need a worthier set of opponen Jim__ Jan 2015 #3
I'm not sure but I think she is talking about the Catholic in the story cbayer Jan 2015 #4
If she's talking about the Catholic, I wish she would have told us why he is not a ... Jim__ Jan 2015 #6
Agree that it is very unclear. cbayer Jan 2015 #7
Off topic, hope you don't mind. Feral Child Jan 2015 #5
I appreciate your sharing this. cbayer Jan 2015 #8
Thanks for listening Feral Child Jan 2015 #9
It means a lot to me that you have shared this with me. cbayer Jan 2015 #10
I owe it to the Group. Feral Child Jan 2015 #11

Jim__

(14,077 posts)
2. This may work.
Mon Jan 5, 2015, 12:15 PM
Jan 2015

It worked for me: https://www.google.com/#q=%22secular+and+proud+of+it%22

Then select the top entry returned from google. If you can't get to that, try googling "secular and proud of it"

Jim__

(14,077 posts)
3. "If atheists are going to sharpen their position ... they will surely need a worthier set of opponen
Mon Jan 5, 2015, 12:19 PM
Jan 2015

The article ends with the sentence:

If atheists are going to sharpen their position and also preserve their most admirable trait—intellectual honesty—they will surely need a worthier set of opponents.


Do you know who they are referring to by opponents?

My best guess is that it refers back to the vast majority of the unaffiliated referenced in the previous paragraph:

Such ideas may appeal to some of the young adults who have abandoned religion, but the vast majority of the unaffiliated are not atheists as such. They are simply disaffected and indifferent, and many are uneducated about religious doctrine. They have no biblical literacy and embrace the shallow postmodern notion that good behavior is relative and that being “judgmental” is the big problem in life. It’s not clear that atheists would really want these folks in their camp.


I tend to think that good behavior is relative (although not in an absolute way), but don't think that being “judgmental” is the big problem in life.

cbayer

(146,218 posts)
4. I'm not sure but I think she is talking about the Catholic in the story
Mon Jan 5, 2015, 12:29 PM
Jan 2015

and referring to this conclusion:

I think He does not exist; that is where the importance comes in for me


But i have read it repeatedly and I am not sure.

In terms of the description of the young "nones", I think she is describing them as lazy. It seems that she is saying that they don't really have to think about what is good or bad behavior and those that do are just deemed too judgmental.

Jim__

(14,077 posts)
6. If she's talking about the Catholic, I wish she would have told us why he is not a ...
Mon Jan 5, 2015, 12:42 PM
Jan 2015

... worthy opponent.

cbayer

(146,218 posts)
7. Agree that it is very unclear.
Mon Jan 5, 2015, 12:45 PM
Jan 2015

I think he was saying that the challenge was too simplistic and led to a less than sterling position - God is important because I don't believe in him. My sense is he is arguing for a higher level of debate and conclusion.

But, I am not sure.

Feral Child

(2,086 posts)
5. Off topic, hope you don't mind.
Mon Jan 5, 2015, 12:40 PM
Jan 2015

I looked at my profile recently, it lists my favorite Group as Religion.

Hmmm.

Not at all true. I have strong opinions on the subject, but I have to admit that I really don't care that much about sharing them. I've been "reactionary", reacting to posts that show up on the "Greatest".

That's inappropriate. Since I really don't have anything to contribute, I shouldn't just pop in with a shit-bomb. My excuse: for the last 2 decades I've lived in an extremely hostile Evangelical community. The stalking and harassment has gone so far that I've had the local Sheriff's deputies come by to inform me they've been called with complaints against me for "blasphemy". Actually, the Deputies have all been pretty decent about it, but they have to come by to investigate any reports of "Peace Disturbance", even if ludicrous.

It's unfair that I unload my frustration at DU; hence, you all have my apologies and a promise to be more circumspect in the future. Although my views haven't changed, I'll try very hard to keep them out of this Group.

Again, sorry about the interruption, I should have OPd this, but I have to admit I haven't been able to figure out how to post an OP.

I'd appreciate a tip on that if you don't mind sharing.

cbayer

(146,218 posts)
8. I appreciate your sharing this.
Mon Jan 5, 2015, 12:51 PM
Jan 2015

My experience in trying to have a conversation with you has been less than enjoyable, but understanding something about who you are and where you are coming from is very helpful

It's sounds like you have has a horrible experience that goes far beyond what anyone here has previously described. I am sorry that you are in that community and hope that you can get out sometime in the future.

I think you could find a degree of empathy here, as other members have had very negative experiences as well. But I agree that it is unfair to unload your frustration at people who would never do what you describe and would offer your support and understanding, even though they are believers.

Ok, so to start an OP:

Choose the group you want
In the top left corner, you will see a blue tab labeled "Start a Discussion"
Click it
The next screen has a title line and then the area for text. You can cut and paste or just type directly.
When you are done, hit "post my thread" at the bottom

I hope that you will start an OP to tell your story.

Feral Child

(2,086 posts)
9. Thanks for listening
Mon Jan 5, 2015, 01:05 PM
Jan 2015

and for the tip. Seems like I should have looked a bit harder but I swear I thought I'd been thorough.

My opinions haven't really changed and probably won't, but expressing them, especially in the way I have, hasn't been helpful. I'll try later to post this as an OP (later) since I feel an apology to the Group is appropriate and not everyone will see my aside to you.

Probably won't share my experiences with the Group at this time. I have other pressing topics I'm more interested in, for one thing.

Another, I'd probably just rant. The frustration runs pretty deep and...

I'm in the early stages of conducting a private investigation with the aim of litigation against a particularly nasty "Church" that's been causing severe damage to my property (roughly $50K) and it would be ill advised to share that publicly.

Again, thanks for your time and patience with this interruption.


cbayer

(146,218 posts)
10. It means a lot to me that you have shared this with me.
Mon Jan 5, 2015, 01:08 PM
Jan 2015

I don't think a public apology is necessary, but you are certainly welcome to go there. I know we got into it a few times, and I feel certain that I have not always been the most friendly or kind, so we probably pushed each others buttons.

Thanks for taking the time to communicate directly with me.

Feral Child

(2,086 posts)
11. I owe it to the Group.
Mon Jan 5, 2015, 01:14 PM
Jan 2015

You're not the only one I was rough with.

I'm opinionated and not all my perceptions are incorrect, but I've hurt people here unnecessarily. When I've been inappropriate, I feel the need to own up to it. It's a matter of personal honesty and honor.

Have a good day and New Year, cb.

Latest Discussions»Issue Forums»Religion»Secular and Proud of It -...