Where did the Pope "give his blessing for the referendum", exactly, since that is the root of the issue, it is your call.

used for political purposes by someone else with a vested interest.

“I greet the pilgrims from Slovakia and, through them, I wish to express my appreciation to the entire Slovak church, encouraging everyone to continue their efforts in defense of the family, the vital cell of society,” Francis said during Wednesday’s general audience in Rome."

That is it? Slovakia pilgrams were in town for a General Audience, whatever that is, and he said this generic phrase to mean he endorses one side in the referendum?

No mistake, he obviously does endorse one side and it is the wrong side, but this is hardly an implied interference in the referendum of another nation by any stretch.

Could have said the identical words to pilgrims from any country.

I'm sick of this bullshit, what will it take for you to actually NOT defend or minimize what this Pope does or says when it comes to LGBT rights, reproductive rights, etc.? Seriously, does he have to actually say the "F" word, or something?

of insulting another religion?

Why are you afraid to answer the questions you were actually asked? Are you emotionally and psychologically unable to criticize the pope directly, and doing everything you can to dodge the issues?

the more embarrassing that an honest and forthright answer would be, the less likely you will. People who dodge simple and direct questions in a discussion are immediately suspect. But you have that in common with many people on this board, so don't feel bad.

...enlightening.

is the refusal of people to answer simple, direct and relevant questions or to back up their claims with evidence, in favor of dodges, deflections and other irrelevant responses. A tactic you seem to be well versed in.

speaking out and lobbying to restrict the rights of LGBT people is insulting religion. That's news to me, and frankly I don't give a fuck, homophobia, sexism, misogyny, etc. are social evils, and need to be fought against, I don't care if its someone's "sincerely held religious belief." Religion doesn't deserve any special protections.

That's the Interfaith Forum.

his homophobic bigotry, by disingenuously claiming that his words were "misinterpreted", when you know perfectly well they weren't, and by claiming he isn't trying to influence the laws of another sovreign nation, when you know perfectly well that he is. The only question is, why?

They will point out that his position is changing (even though clearly it isn't), or they will point to all the great things he's doing (which doesn't excuse the promotion of the worst sort of hate), or they will point out that Obama is no better (even though he is).

Or trivially obvious deflection, if you prefer. Or dupe.

Is this what you've devolved to? Someone who disagrees with you is "defending homophobic bigotry"?

Nauseating.

'for the family', being a proponent of the referendum.

This overly self important mammal has a long history of saying much more explicitly vile shit behind closed doors (in letters to elements of the church) which has edged out into daylight for everyone to see.

Among the many things he said in the well recieved speech, the media is lying about that, but if anyone has not viewed the entire speech then you do not have the proper context.

Not to change the subject, not at all, but it is a riveting speech, 23 minutes of it.... riveting.

Please view it and we can talk.

Riveting! Disagree with the premises or not, the man can give a speech.

"It's not that I'm trying to change the subject, but I'm going to try to change the subject"

Try again. Let's hear what you have to say about the pope's bigoted, sexist attitudes and beliefs. No progressive worth the name should have any trouble condemning them wholeheartedly.

feel free to start an OP on it (yeah, right). This thread and my post are about the pope, so your attempt to inject it here can't be seen as anything but a lame and transparent deflection from an issue you haven't the gumption to address forthrightly.

Try again.

He's welcome to his opinion of course, but that's all it is.

topic of religious violence and the vital importance of maintaining a secular state in the face of Attack by one religion or another all over the world, including America.

If there is a video out there that explains all that and the solution to the problem, jealous guardianship of the secular state -clear lines of separation of religion and state - in 23 minutes, I would also like to see and listen to all of it.

Listen to Obama. Listen, not just read.

Respectfully.

Not that everyone pauses to think before lighting torches.

I wait for it to be demonstrated.

QED.

do you accept it now that he gave his blessing to this?

Or so we've been told by the biggest freaking Popemeister on the whole site. He has no fucking influence AT ALL on the affairs of another sovereign nation, and would never even dream of such blatant interference in the lives of non-Carholics. And yes, as we've been told by another other of the room's most enlightened minds, if you're not a Catholic, you shouldn't give a fuck about what the RCC does, because they have no effect on your life at all, ever.

Say it.

Or are you just going to stop talking again, here?

I wonder if might apply to certain other posters... Hmm.

He exists on the same level as President Obama politically, in addition to the other role he plays.

I'd like to see the translation.

How do you feel about advocacy groups using pictures of public figures?

That's all I can get.

It is no exaggeration to say there is, beyond overdue criticism, rank bigotry against religion in general and anything Catholic in particular.

Damaging society. Directly injuring minorities left and right.

I don't believe that you aren't aware of this pope's statements on same sex marriage, and same sex couples adopting children. He's planted his flag, and made his position quite clear. The people who bought that billboard understood the pope perfectly.

embrace of Saudi Arabia and it's regime?

My response, word for word I agree:

Title of the video is not mine and is not a good title.

that referendum, and the people who bought that billboard interpreted his endorsement 100% correctly

with people who can't tell the difference between the Pope and a picture of the Pope.

And give this as a quote of the pope from January 22, 2015.

He apparently did say this last month and it was a direct reference to this referendum.

The title of this article is:

Pope Francis supported the Slovak referendum on the Family (updated)

http://www.postoy.sk/content/papez-frantisek-dnes-podporil-slovenske-referendum

The burden of Proof always is the Accuser's.

directly to the referendum. What other explanation for this statement could their be. It's consistent with his other statements on "family".

This should not really be a surprise. While his position has appeared to soften, he continues to make statements which pretty clearly show him to be in opposition to GLBT marriage. I wish it wasn't true, but it is.

It is through push back like this, that the walls will all come down and even the RCC will eventually change their position.

I do not agree with you that the disagreement of many congregants has done nothing to stop the assault or ameliorate the pain. Catholics that stand in support of GLBT civil rights and provide asylum for those harmed by their churches policies should not be dismissed. They do confront it, do not deny it and should be recognized.

The turnout was about 22% - the referendum law, very sensibly in Slovakia, requires a minimum 50% turnout to be valid. No such common sense in American election law....


It was a big Fuck You to the whole concept of injecting religion into the politics of a secular State, exactly what Obama said at the Prayer meeting.

Freedom of religion also means freedom from religion forcing a referendum on religious issues.

I salute secular Slovania citizens for getting the result right.

All the questions on the referendum FAILED.

Miserably.

to become the driver for a secular matter.

I have seen you mention it several times and look forward to watching it at some point.

when they provide financial and membership support to the organization that propagates it. You, and they, can't have it both ways…sorry.

No other words.

because people didn't even go to the polls.

Only 21% showed up, but 90% of them voted for it.

Activists had encouraged people to boycott the vote, and they were apparently effective.

This in a country that is predominantly catholic, so that's good news.