Religion
Related: About this forumU.S. Muslims ask why their religion's condemnation of violence often goes unheard
http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-muslim-condemnation-20150509-story.htmlBy SARAH PARVINI
May 9, 2015
Saaliha Khan scrolled through her Facebook feed and pored over posts expressing sadness, dismay and disapproval, the kind of messages that always appear after an attack carried out in the name of Islam.
It was just past midnight on Monday, and two Muslim gunmen had been killed about six hours earlier in a shootout outside a controversial cartoon contest in Garland, Texas, which featured images of the Islamic prophet Muhammad.
If you want to defend the honor of the Prophet, do so in a way that is consistent with prophetic manners and ethics, not violence, Omid Safi, director Duke Universitys Islamic Studies Center, wrote less than 12 hours after the shooting.
The Council on American-Islamic Relations sent out an email: Bigoted speech can never be an excuse for violence.
more at link
skepticscott
(13,029 posts)Maybe it should be a clue to them when they have to "condemn" violence as often as they do.
As you yourself are so fond of pointing out, cbayer, if everyone is telling you that you have a tail you might want to look behind you. By the same token, Muslims who keep harping on Islam being a "religion of peace" might want to take notice of how often it precipitates violence.
hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)cbayer
(146,218 posts)Not sexy.
hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)okasha
(11,573 posts)the likes of Geller, Harris, F. Graham and their dupes all sticking their fingers in their ears and yelling la-la-la-lla as loud as they can.
cbayer
(146,218 posts)Cartoonist
(7,317 posts)They condemn the violence, but praise the source. Same with Christianity. Westboro bad, Bible good.
cbayer
(146,218 posts)It is the individuals who have interpreted the text in a specific way.
Those individuals are condemned and the interpretation they use equally condemned.
Just like WBC - both the individuals and their interpretation are condemned.
Do you share ISIS's interpretation of the Qu'ran? Do you share WBC's interpretation of the bible?
Cartoonist
(7,317 posts)The way the author wrote it.
I don't share anyone's interpretation of books that are full of bullshit.
cbayer
(146,218 posts)I did not know that and I bow to your superior wisdom.
You obviously share an interpretation. You have embraced the most negative interpretations available.
Sad.
Warren Stupidity
(48,181 posts)So your claim is fine, an opposing claim is absurd as the claimant is not an "authority on the authors of the Qu'ran and the Bible!". Interesting.
Yorktown
(2,884 posts)It's even more authoritative, as it's sahi bukhari:
Lordquinton
(7,886 posts)You obviously must be a biblical/quaranic scholar cause you know the WBC are interpreting it wrong, and so are the Muslims who think they should kill to defend their prophet!
You seem to know what is the right and wrong interpretations much better than actual priests.
Tell us how you feel about other christian sects, like Mormons, and how you don't feel they deserve respect.
skepticscott
(13,029 posts)Violence-->individual committing violence-->sacred text that inspired individual to commit violence
I'll let rational people decide what qualifies as the "source". It's not hard. It definitely isn't "complex".
Dorian Gray
(13,496 posts)never existed before the texts were written.
I'm not saying that some don't find inspiration for violence in the texts. I'm sure that is true. Just as some find inspiration for violence in Call of Duty or other video games.
Fumesucker
(45,851 posts)Yorktown
(2,884 posts)Sahih Muslim, 19:4436
This is an authoritative hadith, sacred source of muslim jurisprudence.
cbayer
(146,218 posts)People with agendas are generally not good sources or objective information . ever.
Yorktown
(2,884 posts)Objecting to the messenger is not a valid invalidation of the message.
The debate goes like this:
me
Narrated Jabir bin 'Abdullah:
Allah's Apostle said, "Who is willing to kill Ka'b bin Al-Ashraf who has hurt Allah and His Apostle?" Thereupon Muhammad bin Maslama got up saying, "O Allah's Apostle! Would you like that I kill him?" The Prophet said, "Yes,"
you
skepticscott
(13,029 posts)that if they simply state "My opinion differs from yours" that this automatically grants their opinion equal validity and equal support in fact and reason. Unfortunately for them, all "opinions" are not created equal.
Fumesucker
(45,851 posts)cbayer
(146,218 posts)they are not the best source for objective information in that category.
trotsky
(49,533 posts)I did not know that and I bow to your superior wisdom.
Promethean
(468 posts)how important the story of Mecca and Medina is in islam. I have multiple times. Those that don't say "it is the most important story" will still say it is of extreme importance, on par with anything associated with jesus to christianity. If you cannot do this just look it up online. Note how it is the duty of every muslim to make a pilgrimage to the holy cities at least once in their lifetime. That is how important they and the events around them are to islam.
Next ask them to tell the story. They'll tell you about how the people of Mecca had fallen and were worshiping false idols and how Muhammed led his righteous army to cast out the idols. Remember this is if not "the most important story in islam" then one of extreme importance. So important that every muslim everywhere must visit the site in remembrance. A story of a war of conquest to destroy false religion.
Being founded in a war of conquest to wipe out opposing religions is mutually exclusive to being a "religion of peace."
cbayer
(146,218 posts)In fact the story I found said that Muhammed was driven out of Mecca and established himself in Medina. In Medina, he established himself and a constitution was formed which included muslims, jews, christians and pagans and strictly forbade violence.
Not I'm not saying you are wrong and this version is right, but what it means is that there is more than one story, and I'm not going to buy just yours without more evidence.
As for the pilgrimage, I'm going to register a big "so what".
Promethean
(468 posts)because he started insisting that everybody follow his god. You stopped halfway through the story. Didn't get to the part about how he returned to Mecca.
cbayer
(146,218 posts)You gave one sided view. If I want to learn more, I will do it on my own.
In the meantime, I am not going to accept your rather horrifying views about Islam.
Promethean
(468 posts)I just take their holy books at face value. When atrocity is described to me I take it as atrocity. I will never respect the ideas tied to such things like you insist we must.
Note also that I told you to look it up and told you that you stopped halfway. I have been actively encouraging you not to take me as an authority as well as encouraging you to look up everything. Of course like you said "If I want to..." meaning you of course don't want to pop your precious bubble of willful ignorance. Gotta respect religion no matter how horrible it gets.
cbayer
(146,218 posts)I have done my own research. I think you view is distorted by your own agenda. I asked a muslim. He also disagreed with you.
I frequently criticize religion and have no respect for certain religious ideas. It is you that I would suggest has a precious bubble of willful ignorance - gotta hate on religion not matter what it might do right.
From what I have seen, my opinions vary much more widely than your very, very narrow view.
Yorktown
(2,884 posts)Some interesting entries would be Banu Qurayza, Ridda Wars or Muslim Conquests.
trotsky
(49,533 posts)But in the meantime you'll feel free to scold and accuse all who disagree with your limited knowledge.
Amazing.
Yorktown
(2,884 posts)It would also help if violence meted in the name of Islam over blasphemy in muslim countries was condemned by the local clerics.
Setting fire to the religious text is considered blasphemy in Pakistan. While technically punishable by death under strict Islamic law, it is more common for vigilante mobs to take matters into their own hands.
And if official courts in muslim countries did not give ludicrous jail terms for blasphemy.