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cbayer

(146,218 posts)
Mon May 25, 2015, 06:18 AM May 2015

Catholic Church Ponders Future After Same-Sex Marriage Vote in Ireland

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/05/25/world/europe/church-faces-murky-future-as-irish-support-same-sex-marriage.html?_r=0

By DANNY HAKIM
MAY 24, 2015


Gerry Adams, head of the Sinn Fein, greeted supporters of same-sex marriage at Dublin Castle on Saturday. The referendum was passed with 62 percent of votes. Credit Paul Faith/Agence France-Presse — Getty Images

DUBLIN — The morning after Ireland learned it had become the first nation to approve same-sex marriage by popular vote, Diarmuid Martin, the archbishop of Dublin, looked out at the future of the Roman Catholic Church.

It could be found at St. Mary’s Pro-Cathedral here, in downtown Dublin, as two rows of children awaited confirmation before him in the lofty, column-lined church.

“Boys and girls, I made my confirmation 60 years ago,” he told them, adding, “Your world is different from mine.”

Not far away, the streets were quiet after a long night of celebrating. Revelers filled the bars, beeped horns, waved rainbow flags and drank Guinness after the result was announced on Saturday. The size of the victory energized supporters, with the referendum affirmed by 62 percent of the electorate and passed in all but one of Ireland’s 43 districts.

more at link
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Catholic Church Ponders Future After Same-Sex Marriage Vote in Ireland (Original Post) cbayer May 2015 OP
I can help Cartoonist May 2015 #1
Many denominations have ahscanned the bigotry and misogyny. cbayer May 2015 #3
Far more have turned the dial to 11. Warren Stupidity May 2015 #5
This message was self-deleted by its author Hoppy May 2015 #2
The Catholic church, like others, has a long history of changing what cbayer May 2015 #4
Really? I guess that explains the RCC's about face on abortion divorce and birth control. Warren Stupidity May 2015 #6
Not to mention skepticscott May 2015 #7
Well the church does have a long history, so she is partially correct. Warren Stupidity May 2015 #8
Well, we can eat meat on Friday. What else do you want from them? Hoppy May 2015 #11
Technically, "we" can't. Act_of_Reparation May 2015 #18
Religious Wisdom nil desperandum May 2015 #20
they did about face on abortion Lordquinton May 2015 #17
sorry I can't be specific on the show. Hoppy May 2015 #10
I listen to a lot of sirius/xm as well - same stations as you. cbayer May 2015 #12
The conversation with the pope and cardinal (if true) wasn't about theology. Hoppy May 2015 #13
Sure, they can be extricated from that hole. cbayer May 2015 #14
You might want to research catholic dogma on this. AtheistCrusader May 2015 #19
Thanks for doing the research for me. cbayer May 2015 #21
The problem for the church is that many of the leaders still believe this shit. Hoppy May 2015 #9
Why did you self delete your response then repost it here? cbayer May 2015 #15
It showed up twice. Hoppy May 2015 #16

Cartoonist

(7,317 posts)
1. I can help
Mon May 25, 2015, 07:24 AM
May 2015

“For many, and I’ve said this before, inside the church becomes almost alien territory to them in today’s society,” he said. “If the leadership of the Irish Catholic church don’t recognize that, then they’re in severe denial. Have I got a magic formula? Certainly not."
-
I have a formula, and there's no magic involved. Just ashcan all the bigotry, misogyny, and piety in the Bible.

cbayer

(146,218 posts)
3. Many denominations have ahscanned the bigotry and misogyny.
Mon May 25, 2015, 09:00 AM
May 2015

We shall see if the RCC does as well.

Not so sure about the piety. That's kind of up to the individual.

Response to cbayer (Original post)

cbayer

(146,218 posts)
4. The Catholic church, like others, has a long history of changing what
Mon May 25, 2015, 09:06 AM
May 2015

they "believe" when it is clear that it is in their best interest to do so.

What is funny about the NPR story your recall (which I can't find) is the assumption that the cardinals or anyone else could put anyone in hell or get them out. They don't make the rules, they just interpret them. If they are wrong, I would guess that their god did the right thing anyway.

Would love to see this story, but, as I said, I can't find it.

 

skepticscott

(13,029 posts)
7. Not to mention
Mon May 25, 2015, 09:24 AM
May 2015

Homosexuality, same-sex marriage and the ordination of women.

In fact, what "beliefs" that really matter HAS the RCC officially changed their stance on?

Act_of_Reparation

(9,116 posts)
18. Technically, "we" can't.
Tue May 26, 2015, 12:30 PM
May 2015
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1218&pid=190119

Abstinence from meat on penitential days is still very much on the books. The Vatican has not changed their mind on the issue. They have simply allowed individual dioceses to determine what days are considered penitential, who is considered healthy enough to fast, and, hilariously enough, what constitutes "meat".

In New Orleans, for example, you can eat alligator on Ash Wednesday without shame or fear of divine retribution because the Dioceses of New Orleans, in its wisdom, correctly determined that alligator is not meat, but fish. Fish lives in the water. Alligator lives in the water. Alligator is fish. Case closed.

nil desperandum

(654 posts)
20. Religious Wisdom
Tue May 26, 2015, 02:51 PM
May 2015

- Tell me, what do you do with witches?
- Burn them!
- And what do you burn, apart from witches?
- Wood!
- So why do witches burn?
- 'Cause they're made of wood?
- How do we tell if she is made of wood?
- Does wood sink in water?
- No, it floats.
- What also floats in water?
- A duck!
- Exactly.
- So, logically--
- If she weighs the same as a duck...
- she's made of wood.
- And therefore?
- A witch!
- A duck! A duck! - Here's a duck.
- Burn the witch !
-
 

Hoppy

(3,595 posts)
10. sorry I can't be specific on the show.
Mon May 25, 2015, 12:46 PM
May 2015

I drive 50k miles per year, have XM and listen to a great deal of NPR, APR and PRI.

The radio becomes like wallpaper while driving. I do recall that the comment was dialog in conjunction with someone flogging their new book.

Looking through Diane Rehm's list of guests, the most likely would be Krakaur on April 23. But that is just a guess.

I also listen to Takeaway, On Point, Fresh Air and Here and Now.

cbayer

(146,218 posts)
12. I listen to a lot of sirius/xm as well - same stations as you.
Mon May 25, 2015, 12:58 PM
May 2015

I know exactly how you feel, but I am often amazed as how much I actually retain, lol.

We like the same programs as our background noise, that's for sure.

For music, I like The Loft - particularly David Johansen and Meg Griffin. Worth every penny, imo.

 

Hoppy

(3,595 posts)
13. The conversation with the pope and cardinal (if true) wasn't about theology.
Mon May 25, 2015, 03:28 PM
May 2015

It was about the Catholic Church having dug itself into a logical hole from which they cannot be extricated.

cbayer

(146,218 posts)
14. Sure, they can be extricated from that hole.
Mon May 25, 2015, 03:58 PM
May 2015

They merely say they were wrong. They've done it before and will do it again.

AtheistCrusader

(33,982 posts)
19. You might want to research catholic dogma on this.
Tue May 26, 2015, 01:13 PM
May 2015
An indulgence is a remission before God of the temporal punishment due to sins whose guilt has already been forgiven, which the faithful Christian who is duly disposed gains under certain defined conditions through the Church’s help when, as a minister of redemption, she dispenses and applies with authority the treasury of the satisfactions won by Christ and the saints" (Indulgentarium Doctrina 1)


You are correct that this doesn't apply to post-death hell type punishments, but the church actively can, when allowed, absolve temporal punishments for forgiven sins. They take an active hand in it, not just interpreting the rules.

There is a common misperception that it applies to hell, and you are correct that it does not.

cbayer

(146,218 posts)
21. Thanks for doing the research for me.
Tue May 26, 2015, 03:56 PM
May 2015

I'm glad they can and do absolve things after they change their mind. That's good for those who are still alive and desire it, but it doesn't undo the damage done to those who have been punished for rules that later change.

 

Hoppy

(3,595 posts)
9. The problem for the church is that many of the leaders still believe this shit.
Mon May 25, 2015, 12:14 PM
May 2015

So, if they really believe, do they give up telling their truth in order to regain attendance? Or is it better to have 1/10th of the pews filled with people who really believe?

Then you have the leaders who know its bullshit. There is the story on NPR a few months ago. Pope Bene was discussing downgrading one of the sins which gets you in hell. A cardinal asked him, "We have put millions of souls into hell for this sin. How then, are you going to get them out?"

If the story is true, the problem becomes one of how to reverse a couple of thousand years of bullshit. Doing so raises the question, if they were wrong on ----, what else are they wrong on?

The gateway to questioning was opened when they gave up on the Tridentine Mass. Next, one could actually eat meat on Friday without sin. If that is no longer a sin, what else is no longer a sin? What else have they got wrong?

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