Still disgusting bigots selling disgusting beliefs and world view...

are and always have been actions in support of Justice and Freedom.
It's all in the name. Simple as that.

Historically they were organized as Christian knights to promote white supremacy based on Christian tenants. They view themselves as true Christians. How is that different than any other group of Christians?

...if you feel tempted to burn down churches as an expression of your Christianity, you just might be doing it wrong.

They say they're Christian just as so many others do...the "true Christian" argument is bogus.

So I guess I'll go with the other guys.

So I consider them what they say they are.

They can call themselves anything they want, their actions tell the tale. The same is true for many who consider themselves Christian and persecute women by denying them access to healthcare.

It is what it is.

I think you know what I said and why.

Who's entitled to point to another person and deny them the right to call themselves Christian, or Muslim etc., I say no one.

...I'd choose their views to define their own religion over the views of terrorists who seek to define the religion of their victims for them.

I suspect that they had a better handle on what it means to be a Christian. (And I'm an atheist, by the way.).

It's just a matter of respect for me.

And the KKK has not earned my respect.

This thread is about them trying to rebrand themselves as not a hate group and claims of being Christian as part of that. I know there are a lot of hateful Christians, so I'm not going to argue that with them.

That was my point.

They were founded on Christian principles as many another Christian group is, the Tea Party for instance.

Those people, in your picture, have my respect, all people who are killed and terrorized for any reason have my sorrow and I've stood up to the KKK...they don't differentiate from black or white when you do that and they think they can get away with it.

I'm not sure what your beef is.

When you talk about Christians, you sound like a fundamentalist talking about atheists.

Define what you mean by "normal" Christians.

to people who were Christians and were murdered.

Maybe we need to define what "normal" means?

How about: 1. conforming to the standard or the common type; usual; not abnormal; regular; natural

when asked to define normal Christians.

It seems to be your definition of normal Christians.

Perhaps in the future you could find some other way to define "normal Christians".

A bunch of Idiots who flunked Boy Scouts.

fleshed out. Probably many on this board that would like to put their two cents worth into that discussion. Once did a stint as a troop leader,one year was enough,the Church that was the Troop sponsor was a total wack a doddle fundy freak out. Great kids,but their parents were so messed up and did not have a clue.

Christ would not accept the KKK agenda...why would anyone else?

Are you certain you and you alone have interpreted the bible 100% correctly?

Where I lived in Dexter, Me, we had a very active Klan presence in the 20s and 30s. Instead of Blacks, our local chapter hated French-Canadiens and Catholics. Hell, we had a Governor elected in the 20s, a Republican klansman, Owen Brewster. The Klan is an equal opportunity minority hater...just depends who is in the minority. Nothing particulary fucking "christian" about these haters.

It SOUNDS like you're suggesting that the clan can't be biblical/Christian because they are a hate group as if the two are mutually exclusive?

Do I have that right?

From RawStory today:

On Sat Jul 11, 2015, 08:50 AM an alert was sent on the following post:

There's really no counter argument
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1218&pid=207046

REASON FOR ALERT

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

ALERTER'S COMMENTS

No counter argument to the KKK?

Seriously?

Then why does DU even exist?

If you can't honestly say that the KKK is wrong, then you don't belong here on DU.



JURY RESULTS

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Sat Jul 11, 2015, 09:07 AM, and the Jury voted 4-3 to HIDE IT.

Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Unbelievable comment. Truth may be relative but there are still facts.
I am blown away by some stuff I've seen here lately, and this is way up there, but in this group I think there's more leeway. Just flood with facts in response
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #3 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #4 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: What poppycock and dribble.
Juror #5 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #7 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: While I am no fan of organized religion, the KKK is (and always has been) a hate group that uses Christianity as a tool to cushion their hate. The counter argument is to expose their ignorance and hatefulness, and not to pretend they are some innocuous innocents that just have an alternative belief.

Thank you very much for participating in our Jury system, and we hope you will be able to participate again in the future.

Because it's like they have zero comprehension of what was written.

And they got lucky with a jury that didn't even bother to understand the post their were judging, so they got away with an alert that they knew was bogus. I think we can make a pretty good guess who it was, and be sure that they'll continue to alert troll this thread.

After all, the church only convicted them and handed them over to the state, gosh, who could have imagined they'd be executed in horrible ways by the (non-secular) state?

as 'KKK' was probably the organization that 'Hate group' was coined to describe

A: 'Look for the Under-Armour logo'

It's a good product for cold weather...guess I don't get the joke.

that under armour makes you a klansman

unless you have the logo on a klan robe

I see above that some folks have difficulties with discernment, even here at DU.

That is unfortunate.

This is where I disagree with the hidden post above, which claims that one cannot honestly disagree with the KKK.

What is missing there is any semblance of discernment.

That's a completely ridiculous and false paraphrase. It is hurtful and spiteful of you to try and slander another DUer like that.

Will you please stop?

Feel free to stop at any time.

I didn't seek a conversation with you in this thread.

You were seeking a conversation with me.

Perhaps that behavior has something to do with your multiple timeouts.

I thought you might be interested in increasing the quality and duration of your interactions at DU. If I am incorrect, and you would rather stay your current course, then pardon me.

"which claims that one cannot honestly disagree with the KKK."


You fucked up, bucky. Anyone who actually reads that post in context knows you just changed the meaning of that poster's statement. Let me complete your false paraphrase:

'which claims that one cannot honestly disagree with the KKK by use of religious principles, or religious interpretation.'


That poster was saying that religion doesn't have an IEEE spec that can be objectively used to show X party using it wrong.

And that squishy un-definable, 'my interpretation is just as valid as yours' horseshit lends itself to things like, white Christian terrorists using it as cover for their hate and bigotry. Whatever the alleged intent of the alleged biblical character of jesus may have been, cover is offered, and that sucks.

Until one of these fucking deities pops up to actually clarify this bronze age sun-addled desert goat herder bullshit, I'm going to reject it outright. From the Christian terrorism of the KKK, to the Christian war on women of the RCC, to the WBC homophobia, to you name it. Bring on the supreme supernatural whosit to back that shit up, or let's take away all these hate orgs binkies by throwing their precious religious texts on the dustbin of human mistakes, and walk away.

In context, it didn't say what you just said it did. You altered the meaning. So did the alerter. Sadly, the jury was convinced.

You and I know full well this group is steeped in 'you can't claim the *right* interpretation of religious texts' bullshit from the religious apologists. Perhaps the jury didn't know.

It was a bad hide, and you're a bad person for trying to intentionally misconstrue its meaning, and so was the alerter. You should apologize. The alerter should apologize. People who serve on juries should actually read the post in context, and not just trust the alerter's opinion.

Want to prove me wrong? Take it up with your friends that always give religion cover when some asshole uses it as a weapon to hurt other people.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1218206511#post7

Go on. Tell her she's wrong. Tell her that the KKK is objectively and provably wrong in claiming it can be Christian, while the rest of us call them white racist terrorists, and that they can't be both Christians and white racist terrorists at the same time.

Is this one of those 'don't hold your breath' moments, or are you going to do it?

But you know that and so does everyone else judging by your recent epic smack down in GD.

Some people never learn.

That's the thing. We've got people like you in here that defend religion by way of 'they're not doing it right', but rejecting that anyone has the discernment to grok which is the 'right' version/interpretation anyway.

But then you'll say the KKK is wrong in their interpretation of the religion they ascribe to and just special plead it because the KKK is a bunch of vicious asshole bigots and you don't like them.

Fine, I don't like them either, but there's nothing in religion that precludes someone being a vicious asshole bigot, or a terrorist or anything else. Your casual dismissal of their beliefs doesn't help your position. Sure, anyone would be quick to agree, after all, they are a spectacularly unlikeable bunch. But you've painted yourself in a corner, because you've denied any principle by which we can objectively SHOW they are wrong.

The KKK was founded in such a manner as to appeal to white Christian bigots. They have been horrifyingly successful in doing so. Why? Because their bullshit can be made to work, can be made convincingly enough with just enough soft language, pointing to weird odd bits of scripture that can be interpreted in various ways, that they can keep that Christian smoke screen going.


Science and reason on the other hand. That shows us what race is, and isn't.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_(human_classification)#Social_constructions

Can OBJECTIVELY show us the amazing benefits of diversity.

Where does the bible speak to that?

Which proves that 'racial purity' is pretty much just suicide.

My morals come from objective reality, from what I can test and prove and justify myself. Not from a book that can be translated anywhere from 'love your neighbors no matter what' to 'shoot an abortion provider in the face in the middle of his own church because he's murdering the itty bitty children'.

Dominion theology and just war theory come out of interpretations of the Christian (Abrahamic new/old testaments) bible.

'Just war' shit is what people like Roeder used to morally justify the murder of Dr. Tiller.


Secular law gave us the tools to lock that murderous piece of shit away for life. There's your objective morality. Not the bible, society. We build it. We justify it. We assert our morals ourselves.

...into a radioactive pile of rubble in a nuclear firestorm is immoral.

For some of us, the moral wrongness of such an act is quite axiomatic.

At some point you need to come to terms with the fact that morality is not a subject where "proofs" predominate.

People don't relate to their moral values proof theoretically.

Keep in mind, axiom/proof/etc in this context is philosophical not mathematical.

They are not exactly overlapping magisterium.

I'm just playing along with your silly terminology, where you want to "prove" morality.

As a mathematical logician by profession, it's very hard to read such claims without laughing.

You actually want me to "prove" that stabbing people at a gay rights parade is immoral?

Did it ever occur to you that some of us just don't like people getting stabbed? That it is a part of our fundamental moral values.

Since when do we need some kind of so-called "proof" for such a moral belief?

I see you're going to start playing your games again, 'you said axiom', duh, no shit I did. In context and appropriately.

Deal with it.

and therein is the problem. That's not a question, that's a rhetorical barb.

Philosophically.


Perhaps we aren't speaking the same language. Have you considered a course in philosophy?

The KKK is as christian and ISIS is muslim

what each world religion is or is not. Damn, what took you so long? We could really use your help in the Middle East to end a bunch of conflict. Get over there, lickety split!

In the hopes that your little unscheduled break from DU made you think a bit about your behavior.

Do you remember why I put you on ignore? Here, let me refresh your memory: http://www.democraticunderground.com/121841986

Read and check post #62. Point out my "religious attack" in that thread, and I'll apologize. Or, you can apologize for the false accusation. Make your choice, and that will make it clear to me whether you are truly interested in dialog.

Read # 5.

Your notion of dialog is raw agreement. This is not the place for that.

See you in another three years.

How original.

As is usually the case, a mandatory vacation from DU seems only to entrench offenders into their positions. The anger and hate only grows from being cast out and marginalized. Not only will we see more of the same, the intensity will also increase.

It was good while it lasted though, wasn't it?

Isn't it a complaint of yours that atheists have been "cast out and marginalized"? Yet you're the last person in here I would associate with "anger and hate".

I extended an olive branch, offered to apologize if I had done something wrong, and got venom spit at me.

At least ignore always works.

Combined with the embarrassing sting of a forced timed-out, and well....

How is that BS?

Should we not believe christians and muslims when they claim they're motivated by their religion?