Religion
Related: About this forumACLU sues Catholic hospital chain over emergency abortions
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2015/10/01/aclu-sues-catholic-hospital-chain-over-emergency-abortions/73147778/...
According to the suit, each of the women had suffered a preterm, premature rupture of membranes, a condition in which the amniotic sac breaks and leaves no fluid around the fetus.
When this happens early in a pregnancy, it virtually always results in fetal death, said Sarah Prager, an associate professor of obstetrics and gynecology at the University of Washington, who is not involved in the lawsuit. Premature rupture of membranes is often caused by an infection. "This is a situation where there is virtually no chance that the fetus will survive," Prager said. "The miscarriage has started. It just hasn't completed."
Women in this situation are at high risk of serious infections and dangerous bleeding, Prager said. Terminating the pregnancy is considered the standard of care, Prager said.
Glad to see one of the heavyweights in the battle for justice jump in the ring. Go ACLU! Stop religion from dictating what medical care women are allowed!
libodem
(19,288 posts)For not being born a man. Gawd, they hate adult females of reproductive age.
trotsky
(49,533 posts)but a lot more of wanting CONTROL of women. They clearly view men as the superior sex, and women are just the vessels by which men make more men. It's putrid, disgusting, and positively revolting to see the theology and church defended constantly here on a progressive website.
rug
(82,333 posts)In part:
That definition of abortion is key. Catholic moral theology has always permitted medical treatment if the direct intention is to save the mother even if the death of the fetus is the known, but unintended result.
By your exclamation point, trotsky, I know you're more interested in exploiting this lawsuit than understanding it. But if you ever climb down from your rampart look up the Principle of Double Effect.
jeff47
(26,549 posts)They didn't.
cleanhippie
(19,705 posts)You see, technically it's not against our theology....
That's all you'll get from that well, it's too shallow to produce anything but slime.
rug
(82,333 posts)Complete with a puking smiley.
rug
(82,333 posts)There are some facts to be ascertained.
The suit is being brought under the Emergency Medical Treatment and Active Labor Act which prohibits the transfer of a patient to another facility unless she has been stabilized. For the statute to apply, the circumstances must meet those legal definitions. Otherwise, any hospital could transfer the patient to another facility.
If the mother was in a life-threatening emergency situation, Directive 45 should not have prohibited the emergency treatment. If the hospital still failed to act, it would be iiable.
The plaintiffs are also seeking prospective relief which means that the legal parameters of Directive 45 and the statute itself have to be construed by the court to establish clear future guidelines to determine the legal course of action if and when there is a conflict between the two.
jeff47
(26,549 posts)The hospital refused. Despite having "Directive 45" written down.
rug
(82,333 posts)And the Court will have to weigh the claims.
I'll wait for the facts.
jeff47
(26,549 posts)1) Women needed abortions to avoid dying.
2) Hospital didn't give abortions.
Rug: But...um...they said they would! Let's ignore everything that's happened and hope this goes away.
rug
(82,333 posts)jeff47: Catholic hospital bad!
jeff47: I like chocolate!
I'd rather discuss this case than examine spittle.
jeff47
(26,549 posts)1) The women needed abortions in order to not die.
2) The hospital refused to give them.
Which of these two is false?
rug
(82,333 posts)What needs to be established under this suit is that they required emergency treatment at the time. The other thing to be established is what circumstances in the future need to be addressed, including whether the condition is in fact life-threatening and an emergency.
Without those facts being established, transfer to another hospital is legal.
jeff47
(26,549 posts)Their medical condition clearly required an abortion. The standard of care is to do an abortion. There is a very good chance they would die without one.
You could ask Savita Halappanavar what happens when you don't get an abortion in that condition, except she's dead because Ireland bans all abortions.
Nope. This is a lawsuit about what the hospitals did. If the hospitals lose the case, they are likely to change their future procedures in order to avoid losing more lawsuits.
Trying to turn this into "what they do going forward" is an attempt to minimize what they did in the past.
That has been long established. By a mountain of dead women. You are now attempting to overturn decades of medical knowledge in order to protect Catholic dogma. And kill women.
rug
(82,333 posts)Most of the complaint is about the policy and the potential harm and violations of the statute it may incur.
The only specific claims the complaint makes is that certain unspecified women were denied emergency stabilizing treatment and that the necessary emergency treatment must be an abortion.
That is not a fact at all, it is an allegation in a complaint which requires evidence which has not yet been produced.
Read the complaint, starting at paragraph 24.
I will reiterate: if the allegation is in fact proven, the hospital loses. If not, it wins.
jeff47
(26,549 posts)That is not a fact at all
1) The amniotic sac ruptured in all of these women.
2) #1 means the baby will die. #1 also means the woman is at severe risk of a fatal infection.
3) Standard medical care is to perform an abortion, because of the extreme risk to the women.
4) The hospitals refused to do so.
5) Rug doesn't like 1-4, so he insists they are not facts.
Catholic hospitals are providing care below medical standards, and putting women at risk of dying in order to satisfy dogma that doesn't actually appear in the bible.
You know what does appear in the bible? A recipe for making a drink that supposedly induces a miscarriage. AKA, an abortion. The Old Testament is full of interesting things.
rug
(82,333 posts)The article is about the lawsuit.
Do not attempt to say what I like or do not like.
There are more than a dozen OT passages about abortion. Send them to the court so he can decide the case on Scripture instead of facts.
cleanhippie
(19,705 posts)One-trick pony's have only, uhm, well, one trick.
rug
(82,333 posts)jeff47
(26,549 posts)Things like his claims of being an atheist, yet supporting every single Catholic dogma.
rug
(82,333 posts)Who told you I ever said I was an atheist?
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)jeff47
(26,549 posts)cleanhippie
(19,705 posts)Mariana
(14,856 posts)The fact that she's at high risk for complications that may result in her death doesn't matter, those complications must arise - and become life-threatening - before it can be done. The fact that the fetus isn't going to survive anyway doesn't matter. Am I understanding this correctly?
rug
(82,333 posts)If she were indeed dying, anything but palliative care would be fruitless.
As far as the statute under which this suit is brought, it applies only to emergency situations. If she were experiencing a high risk pregnancy, her doctor could advise her of her remedies.