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Related: About this forumNoam Chomsky versus Islamophobe Sam Harris: Has the New Atheist Movement Been Hijacked by Bigots?
In his anti-Muslim jihad, "New Atheist" prophet Sam Harris openly aligns with far-right politicians like Ben Carson.
By Ben Norton
December 9, 2015
Anti-religious prophet Sam Harris has, once again, exposed the conservatism at the heart of the so-called New Atheist movement.
In the November episode of his Waking Up podcast, Sam Harris spoke with seasoned neoconservative pundit Douglas Murray about Islam, liberalism and the refugee crisis. Harris frequently flexes his liberal bona fides, yet the two spent much of the conversation in agreement. The neuroscientist even called the right-wing writer one of the best people on this topic."
The title of the episode alone, On the Maintenance of Civilization, says a lot. Harris is wont to argue that Muslims threaten the very fabric of Western civilization.
Most striking in the approximately two-hour-long discussion were comments Harris made about renowned left-wing intellectual Noam Chomsky and far-right Republican presidential candidate Ben Carson.
http://www.alternet.org/noam-chomsky-versus-islamophobe-sam-harris-has-new-atheist-movement-been-hijacked-bigots
Yorktown
(2,884 posts)First, of course, the false flag word 'islamophobia'
Islam is an ideology, arguably a bad one, it's OK to dislike (phobia) it (Islam)
It's anti-Muslim bigotry which is not OK.
Speaking of ill defined words, "the so-called New Atheist movement" is cute, too.
What is "new" about atheism? In what are current atheists "new". They live now. Big deal.
Second, the unfounded generalization: Harris is conservative, so 'new' Atheism is conservative. Dawkins is center left (Social Democrat) for example. But more generally, atheists tend to be left wing.
Last, the article tends to brush aside the underlying essential question by misrepresenting it: "Muslims threaten the very fabric of Western civilization". No, individual Muslims one by one do not conspire to bring the West down. But a great many Muslim preachers claim Democracy is a corrupt system which is different from and inferior to Theocracy: "Islam is the solution to everything".
Brushing this question aside won't make it disappear.
Jim__
(14,083 posts)Kind of says all that has to be said about Harris.
rug
(82,333 posts)Like it is for most one-issue people.
Unfortunately, there is a lot more to say about Harris.
Promethean
(468 posts)We bemoan how our opponents quote mine and take things people say out of context. Hypocrisy is ugly. I listened to this podcast back when the controversy was actually new. Yes, this article is dredging up old news to most of us and I listened to it specifically to see what the furor was about because I am a skeptic and actually confirm before I believe. The context was specific to this one issue. Harris even said something along the lines of "Carson is a completely abhorrent person and is wrong on almost everything" before adding the line being brought up which references only the position on islam. Slam people who are against islam all you like, we did the research, we see how its practiced both in the countries it is the majority and in "western" countries. Islam is a threat to our civilization.
Jim__
(14,083 posts)Go ahead. Justify that quote.
And the line references only the position on Islam?
Yes, only the position on Islam: in terms of the totality of their understanding of whats happening now in the world.
rug
(82,333 posts)Including his admiration of neocon Douglas Murray as a "very incisive critic of political correctness".
For more context on Murray, you may want to read his book:
cpwm17
(3,829 posts)He'll give a couple of sentences making one point, just to cover has ass, and then he'll say exactly the opposite.
That's how he writes about his support aggressive war and torture.
Islam is a threat to our civilization.
From what has been going on for the last century, the Middle East has been severely damaged by the West. It was the US that started the Iraq War. The US supports many of the worst characters in the ME and also floods the region with weapons.
Neocons, like Sam Harris, are some of the biggest threats to the future of this world.
cpwm17
(3,829 posts)The proof is in the pudding. Look at any discussion forum concerning Sam Harris. Scores of atheists will show up spouting far right-wing hateful propaganda, defending Sam Harris.
Look who Sam Harris had on his podcast when Sam Harris said he prefers Ben Carson over Noam Chomsky. It was Douglas Murray, an outspoken neocon and hater of brown people:
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Sam Harris is a leader in the white supremacy movement.
Yorktown
(2,884 posts)White supremacism?
Radical preachers like Musa Cerantonio or Abdurahim Green are caucasians.
And islamic supremacists.
cpwm17
(3,829 posts)who promotes policies that have devastated the Middle East, and who has a following of like-minded bigots.
White supremacists have historically hated Jews who are usually white. Sam Harris is little different than these white supremacists that hate Jews, with Muslims as his target. Muslims are usually less white than Jews.
Yorktown
(2,884 posts)Were the "policies that have devastated the Middle East" based on white supremacism?
On "New Atheism"?
"Muslims are usually less white than Jews"? Islam is a missionary religion, so it encompasses a greater diversity of ethnicities. What point does it make?
And the islamic supremacism of white Muslim preachers is as dangerous as white supremacism.
cpwm17
(3,829 posts)you can take it up with those particular religious leaders that promote hatred, aggressive war, and torture, just like Sam Harris does over here. I'm more concerned about the bad behavior of the folks over here. We have more than our share of sociopaths over here, as the last republican presidential debate proves. It was mostly about scary Muslims and war.
The Middle East has had way more than its share of US meddling and war making. Considering the number of people that fall for Sam Harris' act, it seems things may very well get worse before they will get better.
edhopper
(33,615 posts)and disagree on others. Just because someone wrote a best seller, doesn't mean he speaks for atheist.
Hitchens was great on religion and god awful on politics and the Iraq war.
Atheist have no leader, no litmus test.
And criticizing a religion or ideology does not make one a bigot.
I would like to hear the defenders of Islam here tell us why it is a good belief system?
MisterP
(23,730 posts)at the people that Trump and Geller haven't got covered
in fact liberal Muslims or Christians are its greatest foe because they break the whole idea of "it's either the fundies or us": NA anger is reserved for the mainstream of these religions, and mounts with each denunciation of terrorism