Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member Latest Breaking News General Discussion The DU Lounge All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search

atheistprogress

(30 posts)
Sun Apr 22, 2012, 03:00 PM Apr 2012

No religious test is a government policy.

Doesn't mean the people don't deserve to know the truth about a candidates beliefs.
Just as the first amendment holds no protection for you against the onslaught of offended people, so too is there no protection against the questioning of ones religious beliefs by the people, or the news media. (which doesn't seem to want to go to deep into the cult that is mormonism)
Mitts mormonism is not off the table, just as Kennedy's catholicism was a legitimate concern until he fully addressed the possibility of policy conflict with the pope.
Romney's beliefs, if he actually has any, need to be addressed. Does he believe the white horse prophecy? Don't know what that is? That's why we need to talk about his mormonism.
Does he believe all of it, none of it, some of it. Is he an orthodox mormon, a fundamentalist polygamist mormon, a reformist mormon, (or what I believe) an embarrassed that he has to talk about it because he knows how ridiculous mormonism is but enjoys the structure and rules governing every aspect of life mormon?

14 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies

MADem

(135,425 posts)
1. JFK was forced to stand and deliver, and aver that he wouldn't answer to Rome.
Sun Apr 22, 2012, 03:04 PM
Apr 2012

"No religious test" means you don't have to belong to a particular club in order to hold office or work in government. It doesn't mean people can't ask you about your membership in a religion, a golf club, a fraternal society, or any other outfit where people get together to be social or engage in group activities.

cbayer

(146,218 posts)
2. I am still of two minds about this.
Sun Apr 22, 2012, 03:08 PM
Apr 2012

I support the DNC's decision to not use it as an issue. That's the high road and we are better off if the leadership, including Obama, stays away from it, imo.

OTOH, I think the press and super-pac's are going to see it as fair game and put him in some pretty awkward positions. He's tried to identify himself with the fundies and RW Catholics, but he is clearly neither one.

pscot

(21,024 posts)
3. He may find mormonism politically embarrassing
Sun Apr 22, 2012, 03:36 PM
Apr 2012

but he's a committed, prosyletizing believer, who went to considerable pains to facilitate his wife's conversion. Ultimately everyone in her family converted except her atheist father.

Rob H.

(5,351 posts)
7. "Ultimately everyone in her family converted except her atheist father."
Sun Apr 22, 2012, 06:05 PM
Apr 2012

Thanks to LDS doctrine, he didn't have to. According to this and several other articles, Edward Davies, Romney's father-in-law, was posthumously baptized into Mormonism (yep, the LDS church recognizes such a thing). His father-in-law was anti-religious and likely never would've converted while he was alive--shame that Mittens apparently couldn't respect Davies' wishes and let him rest in peace.

darkstar3

(8,763 posts)
4. I disagree. The people don't deserve to know anything about a candidate's beliefs,
Sun Apr 22, 2012, 04:21 PM
Apr 2012
unless that candidate injects their own beliefs into the foray. Once that happens all bets are off.

FLyellowdog

(4,276 posts)
5. How would we know?
Sun Apr 22, 2012, 04:38 PM
Apr 2012

Those who believe that the end of days is at hand may be more apt to push that nuclear button in an effort to bring it on. After all, they don't fear the apocalypse. They see all that as an organized plan from god, humanity be damned. Crazy fanatical thinking has no place in public office. IMO

darkstar3

(8,763 posts)
6. You don't think that kind of crazy will show up in the campaign?
Sun Apr 22, 2012, 04:41 PM
Apr 2012

To be more clear, you don't think they would actually start quoting scripture at AIPAC or some other shit like that?

atheistprogress

(30 posts)
9. so if he believes he is the white horse...
Sun Apr 22, 2012, 08:47 PM
Apr 2012

...but doesn't say so, we have no right to ask him? I say bullshit.

darkstar3

(8,763 posts)
10. I don't think I understand your reference.
Sun Apr 22, 2012, 08:54 PM
Apr 2012

As for crazy beliefs being held by candidates, my point is as follows:

A person who will allow their crazy beliefs to control what they do while in office is a person who will undoubtedly inject their crazy beliefs into the campaign. We have tons of examples of this.

 

skepticscott

(13,029 posts)
12. Sorry, but no
Sun Apr 22, 2012, 10:13 PM
Apr 2012

Anything which might reasonably (or even unreasonably, in some cases) be expected to influence a candidate's behavior, actions or policies after they're elected is something that voters have a right to know about. Religion and religious beliefs absolutely qualify. You know this, just as you know that religious fundamentalists have a penchant for saying (or not saying) whatever will get them elected, and then charging ahead once they're entrenched.

Not all voters may care, but the ones that do should not be required to wait until AFTER a candidate is elected and is pursuing policies in furtherance of their religious beliefs to find out about them.

darkstar3

(8,763 posts)
13. I still say what I did in #10, and add
Sun Apr 22, 2012, 10:21 PM
Apr 2012

that if we expect to be able to investigate each and every candidate's religious beliefs during the campaign as a screening method, what is to stop atheists from being screened out of the political process completely?

This is exactly why we need to get through to as many people as possible that much more is required than simple religious reasoning in order to enact policy or law. It's also why we cannot continue play the game of countering the religious right with religious language. Complete separation should be more than law...it should be an ideal we all try to hold ourselves to.

But to go back to #10, do you really think that some crazy ass who is going to base their foreign or domestic policy on religious ideas won't bring that up in the campaign a la Rick Santorum?

dimbear

(6,271 posts)
8. Americans need to understand that Mormons don't undervalue women at all.
Sun Apr 22, 2012, 06:14 PM
Apr 2012

That's just a silly belief spread by detractors. In Mormonism, women are ranked very high as the third most important sex, right after men and boys.

Ann Romney, for instance, at the moment of reawakening in heaven, doesn't act on her own. She awakens from her sleep only when a man calls to her. NOTE BENE: TRUE. But it doesn't have to be Mitt exclusively, it can be any close male relative. My friends, what could be fairer than that? What indeed?

In fact the only women who aren't treated fairly in heaven are the sad cases who haven't had children. They spend eternity pregnant. NOTE BENE: TRUE.

Response to dimbear (Reply #8)

LeftishBrit

(41,208 posts)
14. People only have a right to know about a candidate's beliefs if they affect their policies, or if
Mon Apr 23, 2012, 10:24 AM
Apr 2012

they show bigotry against other beliefs or none.

Otherwise, it should be irrelevant. Attacking Romney JUST for being a Mormon, and challenging him about his beliefs, is a bit too much like the 'secret Muslim' attacks on Obama.

Romney should not be rejected for being a Mormon; but he should be rejected for being a moron!

Latest Discussions»Issue Forums»Religion»No religious test is a go...