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rug

(82,333 posts)
Sun Feb 7, 2016, 09:37 AM Feb 2016

Sick and Tired of ‘God Bless America’



Kissimmee, Fla., 2012. Alec Soth/Magnum Photos

By SUSAN JACOBY
FEB. 5, 2016
Susan Jacoby is the author of the forthcoming book “Strange Gods: A Secular History of Conversion.”

THE population of nonreligious Americans — including atheists, agnostics and those who call themselves “nothing in particular” — stands at an all-time high this election year. Americans who say religion is not important in their lives and who do not belong to a religious group, according to the Pew Research Center, have risen in numbers from an estimated 21 million in 2008 to more than 36 million now.

Despite the extraordinary swiftness and magnitude of this shift, our political campaigns are still conducted as if all potential voters were among the faithful. The presumption is that candidates have everything to gain and nothing to lose by continuing their obsequious attitude toward orthodox religion and ignoring the growing population of those who make up a more secular America.

Ted Cruz won in Iowa by expanding Republican voter turnout among the evangelical base. Donald J. Trump placed second after promising “to protect Christians” from enemies foreign and domestic. The third-place finisher Marco Rubio’s line “I don’t think you can go to church too often” might well have been the campaign mantra. Mr. Rubio was first christened a Roman Catholic, baptized again at the age of 8 into the Mormon Church, and now attends a Southern Baptist megachurch with his wife on Saturdays and Catholic Mass on Sundays.

Democrats are only a trifle more secular in their appeals. Hillary Clinton repeatedly refers to her Methodist upbringing, and even Bernie Sanders — a cultural Jew not known to belong to a synagogue — squirms when asked whether he believes in God. When Jimmy Kimmel posed the question, Mr. Sanders replied in a fog of words at odds with his usual blunt style: “I am who I am. And what I believe in and what my spirituality is about, is that we’re all in this together.” He once referred to a “belief in God” that requires him to follow the Golden Rule — a quote his supporters seem to trot out whenever someone suggests he’s an atheist or agnostic.

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/02/07/opinion/sunday/sick-and-tired-of-god-bless-america.html
19 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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orpupilofnature57

(15,472 posts)
1. Separation of Church & State should run both way's, it's none of my business, until it effects my or
Sun Feb 7, 2016, 09:45 AM
Feb 2016

the Country's business.

Igel

(35,320 posts)
8. How about freedom of expression or assembly or the press?
Sun Feb 7, 2016, 01:46 PM
Feb 2016

It's fine to let citizens enjoy rights, as long as they don't affect you or the country's business.

Can't let the people get in the way of the government any more than we can let the government get in the way of the people.

Ad absurdum with this argument.

 

orpupilofnature57

(15,472 posts)
9. I'm a citizen, I'm talking about Elected Officials in our Government imposing or being imposed by
Sun Feb 7, 2016, 01:50 PM
Feb 2016

Religious Belief .

edhopper

(33,587 posts)
3. Funny how Jacoby
Sun Feb 7, 2016, 11:19 AM
Feb 2016

doesn't come up when people are attacking the so called "New Atheist". Guess she doesn't fit the stereotype.

edhopper

(33,587 posts)
5. But when "New Atheists"
Sun Feb 7, 2016, 11:26 AM
Feb 2016

not just Dawkins are accused of this or that, her name is seldom if ever mentioned.

 

rug

(82,333 posts)
6. She's no Sam Harris.
Sun Feb 7, 2016, 11:32 AM
Feb 2016

To the contrary, she is very accomplished in articulating the necessity of secularism.

Her books are spot on: Wild Justice, The Age of American Unreason, Alger Hiss and The Battle for History, Never Say Die: The Myth and Marketing of the New Old Age, Freethinkers: A History of American Secularism.

Without the Islamophobia, sexism, antitheism, and neo-con war-mongering, of course.

Major Nikon

(36,827 posts)
7. Very telling how you lump all those things together
Sun Feb 7, 2016, 12:21 PM
Feb 2016

If religionists are free to promote religion, then so must others be allowed the same access to point out the detriments to society. If antitheism is wrong, then proselytization is just as wrong if not more so. If the majority is specifically granted access while the minority is muzzled, the minority has no chance of ever becoming the majority. That's the entire basis of free speech. The real motivation of those who promote the nonsense that antitheism = intolerance is to reinforce the privilege of evangelicals.

 

Goblinmonger

(22,340 posts)
10. No idea
Sun Feb 7, 2016, 03:36 PM
Feb 2016

Good thing there are no religions that have

Islamophobia, sexism, antitheism, and neo-con war-mongering


What would we do if there were people in this very group that were members of a church with major sexism problems. I bet they'd be REALLY conflicted about what to do and would never, ever, never engage in apologetics for that religion.

Major Nikon

(36,827 posts)
11. I don't know of any religions that have antitheism
Sun Feb 7, 2016, 04:49 PM
Feb 2016

So perhaps that thing is far worse than any of the others.

 

rug

(82,333 posts)
13. So, are you saying those three things are in fact a problem with New Atheists?
Sun Feb 7, 2016, 05:03 PM
Feb 2016

Or are you just deflecting.

 

rug

(82,333 posts)
12. I rarely lump things together. You must be referring to others in here.
Sun Feb 7, 2016, 05:01 PM
Feb 2016

I can give you a few if you'd like.

Major Nikon

(36,827 posts)
14. I didn't say you constantly lump things together and I was referring to you
Sun Feb 7, 2016, 05:13 PM
Feb 2016

Nice job of misrepresenting what I said, again.

Seems to be par for the course with you, no?

Major Nikon

(36,827 posts)
16. Deflection noted
Sun Feb 7, 2016, 06:37 PM
Feb 2016

I suspect you don't realize your strawman and obtuse responses are still revealing quite a bit about yourself. Not to worry though. I think most already knew.

Major Nikon

(36,827 posts)
19. Ah yes, another artful repackaging of the tired old, "I'm rubber, you're glue" line
Sun Feb 7, 2016, 08:05 PM
Feb 2016

Never saw that one coming.


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