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rug

(82,333 posts)
Mon Feb 15, 2016, 09:46 AM Feb 2016

The Church of England is absolutely right to pray for Richard Dawkins

The C of E tweet praying for the atheist’s recovery isn’t trolling. Many Christians have reason to be grateful to him

Monday 15 February 2016 08.24 EST
Peter Ormerod

It should make no odds, really. If prayer works, then praying for Richard Dawkins may help him recover more quickly from his stroke. If it doesn’t, then it won’t. No harm done, either way.

That a well-wishing tweet from the Church of England should lead to quite such a reaction says something about the febrile nature of Christian-atheist relations at present. But we’ll lay aside for the moment any scepticism regarding what may have motivated the tweet in question. What’s more important is that believers embrace those, like Dawkins, who criticise their beliefs. Because the fostering and exploration of doubt has a fundamental role in the story of faith.

Dawkins may be called a “New Atheist”, but his atheism isn’t really new. He just happens to have articulated it especially clearly for this generation. One could be unkind and say that the church should be grateful to him for distracting attention from more pertinent and profound critiques (those offered by Freud, Nietzsche and Marx, for example), but there is no doubt that he has made the discussion of belief a mainstream topic. He has doubtless caused Christians to sharpen their thinking and question, or abandon, what they believe. Besides, many Christians will find common cause with him – not only in his critique of the dangerous absurdities of fundamentalism, but in his apparent desire for a more peaceful world (much as his Twitter feed at times suggests otherwise).

Dawkins stands in a long tradition of scepticism, stretching back through the likes of Bertrand Russell, Antony Flew and David Hume, right back to Epicurus and doubtless many beyond. It’s kept religious thought dynamic, and helped it evolve and move closer to truth. Indeed, so important has doubt of the existence and nature of God been to faith that the Judeo-Christian tradition has been a fount of it, from the biblical books of Job and Ecclesiastes to the cry of Jesus from the cross. The philosopher Slavoj Žižek argues that Christianity “is much more atheist than the usual atheism".

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/feb/15/church-england-pray-for-richard-dawkins-recovery-christians

19 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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The Church of England is absolutely right to pray for Richard Dawkins (Original Post) rug Feb 2016 OP
Amen to that Protalker Feb 2016 #1
What a crock of shit. AtheistCrusader Feb 2016 #2
What a thoghtful post. rug Feb 2016 #3
You do that. AtheistCrusader Feb 2016 #4
I was done by the time I hit "enter". rug Feb 2016 #5
Then, sadly, you learned nothing. AtheistCrusader Feb 2016 #6
"What a crock of shit." rug Feb 2016 #7
That your OP was authored by a vile human being. AtheistCrusader Feb 2016 #8
I'm not sure how you can say that Major Nikon Feb 2016 #11
Funny, you used that same line to try and discredit me, yet use it now to bolster yourself. cleanhippie Feb 2016 #10
Oh, do expand on this: rug Feb 2016 #17
Sure. cleanhippie Feb 2016 #18
Deflection. The definition is not the issue. This is your claim: rug Feb 2016 #19
I wonder? edhopper Feb 2016 #9
The truth of the fruitlessness behind the idea of imaginary friends pulling your strings Major Nikon Feb 2016 #12
I wonder if our religious friends agree edhopper Feb 2016 #15
It's probably more relevant to consider how many irreligious agree Major Nikon Feb 2016 #16
So here's what I don't get. Goblinmonger Feb 2016 #13
It's not that difficult, GM. trotsky Feb 2016 #14

Protalker

(418 posts)
1. Amen to that
Mon Feb 15, 2016, 09:59 AM
Feb 2016

Chris is my personal savior because he was revolutionary in that he was inclusive. He walked among the least of us. He was tempted. He feared being abandoned. I am a Democrat for similar reasons.

AtheistCrusader

(33,982 posts)
8. That your OP was authored by a vile human being.
Mon Feb 15, 2016, 08:25 PM
Feb 2016

Independent of any opinions of YOU personally, that I may have shared this day. That author is very good at expressing only his own personal viewpoint and nothing more.

I'm sure you are familiar with the debate tactic of defending a view you don't agree with (devil's advocate). It's a useful tool in exploring whether your own idea has any merit or weaknesses before exposing it to an adversary. (We have red teams just for attacking ideas/finding vulnerabilities and weaknesses here. It's our job to make sure infra stands up to their attacks before actual bad guys get a crack at it.)

The author of that article made no effort to explore the merits of whether that sort of communication from the Anglican church has any downsides with even a totally mellow, reasonable audience. I expect better from the Guardian. One of my primary news sources.

His article boils down to 'what harm is there' without even attempting to explore that avenue. Then in the last paragraphs, whips out 'how short Dawkin's dress is' like he was 'asking for it'. Which is funny since 'cheapening the public discourse' as a 'your fault' sort of explanation suggests the CoE tweet was in fact, cheap.

Major Nikon

(36,827 posts)
11. I'm not sure how you can say that
Tue Feb 16, 2016, 11:49 AM
Feb 2016

His story on how urinals are the scourge of civilization was quite good. Although I'll give you that he does kinda look like a penis with ears.

cleanhippie

(19,705 posts)
10. Funny, you used that same line to try and discredit me, yet use it now to bolster yourself.
Mon Feb 15, 2016, 10:45 PM
Feb 2016

Last edited Mon Feb 15, 2016, 11:25 PM - Edit history (1)

Careful rug, your hypocrisy is showing.

AC's first response is spot on. In so many ways.

cleanhippie

(19,705 posts)
18. Sure.
Tue Feb 16, 2016, 02:22 PM
Feb 2016

hypocrisy
həˈpäkrəsē/
noun
the practice of claiming to have moral standards or beliefs to which one's own behavior does not conform; pretense.


 

rug

(82,333 posts)
19. Deflection. The definition is not the issue. This is your claim:
Tue Feb 16, 2016, 02:52 PM
Feb 2016

"your hypocrisy is showing"

Now prove it.

edhopper

(33,615 posts)
9. I wonder?
Mon Feb 15, 2016, 09:33 PM
Feb 2016
Dawkins stands in a long tradition of scepticism, stretching back through the likes of Bertrand Russell, Antony Flew and David Hume, right back to Epicurus and doubtless many beyond. It’s kept religious thought dynamic, and helped it evolve and move closer to truth.


What truth are they now closer to?

Major Nikon

(36,827 posts)
12. The truth of the fruitlessness behind the idea of imaginary friends pulling your strings
Tue Feb 16, 2016, 11:53 AM
Feb 2016

...and the detriment such things have on society.

Major Nikon

(36,827 posts)
16. It's probably more relevant to consider how many irreligious agree
Tue Feb 16, 2016, 12:36 PM
Feb 2016

It's hard to imagine that skeptics have played no part in the significant decline of organized religion participation rates.

 

Goblinmonger

(22,340 posts)
13. So here's what I don't get.
Tue Feb 16, 2016, 12:12 PM
Feb 2016

One of the big claims against the "new atheists" is that they don't respect religious traditions. We hear that a lot here on DU in regard to the atheists that post here.

So, if we are to follow that request for respect, wouldn't you expect that religion would respect Dawkins lack of beliefs and, instead of posting a prayer tweet, would have just offered a non-religious tweet of support? Wouldn't that have been the respectful thing to do?

trotsky

(49,533 posts)
14. It's not that difficult, GM.
Tue Feb 16, 2016, 12:20 PM
Feb 2016

Religion cannot be criticized, and religious beliefs cannot be mocked, because religion must be respected.

Atheism and non-belief are fair game because, well, just because. Accept that or else be branded an anti-theist bigot!

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