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rug

(82,333 posts)
Tue Mar 29, 2016, 06:56 PM Mar 2016

Is Sam Harris Really A White Supremacist?, Part Two

BY ANDREW AGHAPOUR AND MICHAEL SCHULSON MARCH 25, 2016

Last week, the blogger Hemant Mehta, who writes under the moniker “The Friendly Atheist,” told us to remove our heads from our asses and send Sam Harris an apology for an essay we published the previous week.

The piece’s headline, Is Sam Harris Really a White Supremacist?, was provocative, but it wasn’t a random ad hominem attack; a critic at Salon had recently suggested that Harris, a prominent atheist writer, was espousing white supremacy. Others have made similar charges in the past. And regardless of what you think of Harris’ reasoning, there’s no question that some of his claims about Islam have started to sound awfully similar to the Islamophobic invective coming from the far right.

Harris has said that “we are at war with Islam,” and he has argued that Muslims ought to be profiled. Mehta himself agrees with critics that Harris’ plan to profile Muslims is, “in part,” racial profiling.

As we wrote last week, “with attacks on American Muslims on the rise, and a serious presidential contender claiming that ‘Islam hates us,’ it’s much easier to see the resemblance between New Atheist invectives against Islam and other, more traditional forms of American bigotry.”

http://religiondispatches.org/mehta-response/

33 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Is Sam Harris Really A White Supremacist?, Part Two (Original Post) rug Mar 2016 OP
To suggest atheists are MORE against one religion vs another is disingenuous angstlessk Mar 2016 #1
Most atheists I'm aware of don't give a shit about another's religious beliefs. rug Mar 2016 #2
Thank you for that educational post angstlessk Mar 2016 #3
I would take anything rug says about anti-theists with a grain of salt. Goblinmonger Mar 2016 #21
I wonder why you'd wonder why Major Nikon Mar 2016 #20
No, it's because provacateurs prefer to melt into a herd. rug Mar 2016 #24
You mean like melting "Islamophobia, sexism, antitheism, and neo-con war-mongering" into a herd? Major Nikon Mar 2016 #26
Oh, you're still miffed I didn't respond to you. rug Mar 2016 #27
Not all all. Negative responses still provide plenty of useful information. Major Nikon Mar 2016 #28
Forget the corner. You don't even know where the wall is, major. rug Mar 2016 #29
Perhaps, but silly diversion tactics just aren't that hard to spot Major Nikon Mar 2016 #30
This whole subthread is a diversion. rug Mar 2016 #31
Shitty click bait, part deaux... MellowDem Mar 2016 #4
That would be deux. rug Mar 2016 #7
Even the authors don't say he is... MellowDem Mar 2016 #9
Google Google Google Cartoonist Mar 2016 #5
I see. Your defense of Islamophobia consiststs of shoting child rape. rug Mar 2016 #6
Hahaha Cartoonist Mar 2016 #8
How interesting you find discussions of child rape amusing. rug Mar 2016 #10
You've used that line before Cartoonist Mar 2016 #11
And you used child rape before as taling points again. rug Mar 2016 #12
That's another fallback of yours Cartoonist Mar 2016 #13
No, cartoonist, that's your silver bullet. rug Mar 2016 #14
Why is it? Cartoonist Mar 2016 #15
Yes it is. rug Mar 2016 #16
Show us the way Cartoonist Mar 2016 #17
Us? rug Mar 2016 #18
The Pope is a bigot Cartoonist Mar 2016 #19
Someone needs to come up with a bingo card for rug threads Major Nikon Apr 2016 #32
Let me see . . . . rug Apr 2016 #33
Except no one is defending Harris here Lordquinton Mar 2016 #22
No, they're demanding apologies to poor maligned Sam. rug Mar 2016 #23
Again, no one is defending him, Lordquinton Mar 2016 #25

angstlessk

(11,862 posts)
1. To suggest atheists are MORE against one religion vs another is disingenuous
Tue Mar 29, 2016, 07:07 PM
Mar 2016

WE are against ALL religions...bar none!

We can be against one religion that promotes beheading of apostates, and stoning of women who love a man other than her husband, which may have been an arranged marriage when she was a child...sorry...to me it makes sense to be against that sort of religion.

 

rug

(82,333 posts)
2. Most atheists I'm aware of don't give a shit about another's religious beliefs.
Tue Mar 29, 2016, 07:16 PM
Mar 2016

Antitheists, otoh, are, by definition. against all religions. That in no way exempts them from despisiing one more than another, particularly when pre-existing bigotry is involved.

Atheists and antitheists are not the same thing. One simply has no belief. The other opposes religious belief.

I wonder why so many antitheists seek refuge in the larger set of atheists.

angstlessk

(11,862 posts)
3. Thank you for that educational post
Tue Mar 29, 2016, 07:25 PM
Mar 2016

Before you, I had never heard of antithesists, who do not believe in the existence of god, of which I am one.

I agree it is all wrapped in atheists, whom neither confirm nor deny the existence of god...

What a revelation (to be ironic)

 

Goblinmonger

(22,340 posts)
21. I would take anything rug says about anti-theists with a grain of salt.
Thu Mar 31, 2016, 01:14 PM
Mar 2016

He is very much not one and seems to have a lot of misunderstandings about them.

 

rug

(82,333 posts)
24. No, it's because provacateurs prefer to melt into a herd.
Thu Mar 31, 2016, 06:30 PM
Mar 2016

"Hey! They're attacking all of us!"

Watch. The next anti-theist post that is challeged wil be met with squeals of bias against atheists.

It's a shoddy, discredited and cowardly tactic.

Major Nikon

(36,827 posts)
26. You mean like melting "Islamophobia, sexism, antitheism, and neo-con war-mongering" into a herd?
Thu Mar 31, 2016, 06:48 PM
Mar 2016
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1218&pid=222899

Is that also a shoddy, discredited and cowardly tactic?

I like where this is going.
 

rug

(82,333 posts)
27. Oh, you're still miffed I didn't respond to you.
Thu Mar 31, 2016, 06:52 PM
Mar 2016

Tsk.

No that is as inapposite as you can get.

You will not like where this is going.

Better sound the whistle.

Major Nikon

(36,827 posts)
28. Not all all. Negative responses still provide plenty of useful information.
Thu Mar 31, 2016, 07:02 PM
Mar 2016

I fully expect a negative response to the last question also, which also speaks volumes. No I think I will like where this is going. It's very satisfying to see you paint yourself into a corner and then pretend you didn't.

Major Nikon

(36,827 posts)
30. Perhaps, but silly diversion tactics just aren't that hard to spot
Thu Mar 31, 2016, 07:13 PM
Mar 2016

I told you I was going to like where this is going and you certainly didn't disappoint.

MellowDem

(5,018 posts)
4. Shitty click bait, part deaux...
Tue Mar 29, 2016, 10:53 PM
Mar 2016

Well is he?

Criticism of Islam isn't white supremacy I'm afraid. Hell, even being a straight up bigot isn't white supremacy necessarily. But these authors aren't for having a discussion anyways, they are defending one of the most powerful and privileged bigotrd belief systems in the world, and it's useful to project when doing so.

MellowDem

(5,018 posts)
9. Even the authors don't say he is...
Wed Mar 30, 2016, 08:52 AM
Mar 2016

If neo-cons are often white supremacists, then it's a wonder Hillary isn't one.

Or maybe it was a bullshit, click bait comparison in the first place and the authors don't really care about nuance.

They eventually say real binary is that some sees Islam as at war with other ideas rather than a "dynamic tradition". So what? That's not white supremacy, and Islam is both, IMHO, as are all religions to some extent or other. Islam really does condone violence and bigotry in many parts of its texts, and a lot of Muslims hold heinous beliefs that come directly from Islam.

That is a very real issue, and one that the authors do everything they can to ignore and deflect.

It would be as if they were defending white supremacy as a "dynamic tradition" and condemning others who point out what white supremacists actually believe, to take their click bait analogy to its full conclusion.

Cartoonist

(7,320 posts)
5. Google Google Google
Tue Mar 29, 2016, 11:37 PM
Mar 2016

With the recent postings of more threads exposing the utter depravity of the Catholic church, googling for something Dawkins may have tweeted has come up blank.

Plan B: Regurgitate a baseless smear against Sam Harris.

One single instance of raping a child is far more horrific than ANYTHING said by Dawkins or Harris.

Some people have no sense of scale or honesty.

 

rug

(82,333 posts)
6. I see. Your defense of Islamophobia consiststs of shoting child rape.
Wed Mar 30, 2016, 03:46 AM
Mar 2016

Some people have no sense of scale or honesty.

Cartoonist

(7,320 posts)
8. Hahaha
Wed Mar 30, 2016, 08:06 AM
Mar 2016

What a score sheet you possess.

Accusations of Islamaphobia: MCLXI
Acknowledgement of RomanCC pederasty: 0

Cartoonist

(7,320 posts)
11. You've used that line before
Thu Mar 31, 2016, 12:58 AM
Mar 2016

It's a fallback of yours when you've been nailed. Let me clear something up for you. No one's laughing at rape. We're all laughing at you. Not with you, AT you.

 

rug

(82,333 posts)
12. And you used child rape before as taling points again.
Thu Mar 31, 2016, 05:25 AM
Mar 2016

Let me clear something up for you, cartoonist, and whoever the "we" is you speak for. Your view of religion is bigoted from ther start. You despise it from the get go. It doesn't matter to you in the slightest what is going on; you use whatever is handy, regardless of context, to righteously declaim religion is the source of all evil and religious people are its enablers. This time it's child rape. Tomorrow it will be a woman praying about cancer. After that it will be a mentally ill person arrested while talking of angels. It does not matter in the siightest to you what it is. You can use it.

You've committed the worst sin for a poseur - yo're obvious.

So go back to whatever warped offsite corner on the internet where you get your directions, and acceptance, and tell your "we" they are a sad, pathetic lot, whispering in the shadows until another child rape occurs and you draw straws to see who will troll this site with that news. Your alleged laughter rings hollow. Snickering in the shadows always does. Tell them next time to speak directly and not send such an inept proxy.

Cartoonist

(7,320 posts)
13. That's another fallback of yours
Thu Mar 31, 2016, 07:55 AM
Mar 2016

Accusations of bigotry. A word you throw around as though you think it's a silver bullet and you're the Lone Ranger, defending the West from evil anti-theists. A word you never use to describe the leading bigot that you enable, Pope Frank.

As for my view that religion is evil, I merely point to the evidence of history. It is evil because at its very core it is based on a lie: the existence of a sentient omnipotent being. Religion doesn't have to be evil, it just is.

As for the WE that I presume to speak for, we are those you smear on an almost daily basis with accusations of bigotry, Islamophobia, and most recently, white supremacy. You are now deeply enmired in the cesspool that religion creates for its most rabid followers.

 

rug

(82,333 posts)
14. No, cartoonist, that's your silver bullet.
Thu Mar 31, 2016, 08:13 AM
Mar 2016

You, plural, are incapable of discussing religion without resorting, lazily, to epithets of misogyny, homophobia and whatever other terms you think will play well. It's compulsive. To wit, "the leading bigot that you enable, Pope Frank."

As to your gleeful use of child rape, you've just revealed yourself:

"It is evil because at its very core it is based on a lie: the existence of a sentient omnipotent being. Religion doesn't have to be evil, it just is."

Aside from how demonstrably stupid that statement is, I seriously doubt your motive here is to stop child rape more than it is to stop religion and people who have belief. That is prima facie bigotry.

I presume not a thing, cartoonist. The word "we" is yours. No sooner do you say I presume you speak for "we", than you proceed to speak for them. Do you even know what you're doing?

Why don't you, plural, have some integrity and speak directly for yourselves.

Cartoonist

(7,320 posts)
15. Why is it?
Thu Mar 31, 2016, 08:24 AM
Mar 2016

So it's my fault that I can't discuss religion without mentioning child rape, misogyny, homophobia, and all the other evils that religion fosters. Should I overlook that stuff like You do?

 

rug

(82,333 posts)
16. Yes it is.
Thu Mar 31, 2016, 08:29 AM
Mar 2016

There is a way to discuss, address and oppose misogyny, homophobia and child rape intelligently.

I would welcome it in here.

Cartoonist

(7,320 posts)
17. Show us the way
Thu Mar 31, 2016, 08:32 AM
Mar 2016

You can start by deleting these white supremacy posts and apologizing publicly here to Sam Harris.

 

rug

(82,333 posts)
33. Let me see . . . .
Fri Apr 1, 2016, 07:47 PM
Apr 2016

I keep winning on the other cards.

misogyny
homophobia
sky daddy
delusion
evidence
pedophiia
blank frank
enabler
murdering mothers
ISIS!

Which have I left out?

You've all taken whatever suspense there is out of bingo

Lordquinton

(7,886 posts)
22. Except no one is defending Harris here
Thu Mar 31, 2016, 04:20 PM
Mar 2016

Many people are defending/deflecting from the multiple, ongoing child rape scandals of the Catholic church.

Maybe post part three in all caps?

 

rug

(82,333 posts)
23. No, they're demanding apologies to poor maligned Sam.
Thu Mar 31, 2016, 06:26 PM
Mar 2016

I assume therefore you are not defending Harris.

Part 3 can be in neon all caps and there will still be defenders.

Lordquinton

(7,886 posts)
25. Again, no one is defending him,
Thu Mar 31, 2016, 06:41 PM
Mar 2016

If there is please link to it.

Child rapists in the Catholic Church I can point to a thread with some really disgusting apologetics that is active an ongoing.

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