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rug

(82,333 posts)
Sun Jun 26, 2016, 08:14 AM Jun 2016

The Bad Parable of the Prodigal Son



June 20, 2016
by Adam Lee

The tale of the prodigal son is one of the Christian Bible’s most famous parables. But there’s something about it that’s never sat right with me:

“A certain man had two sons. And the younger of them said to his father, Father, give me the portion of goods that falleth to me. And he divided unto them his living.

And not many days after the younger son gathered all together, and took his journey into a far country, and there wasted his substance with riotous living. And when he had spent all, there arose a mighty famine in that land; and he began to be in want… And when he came to himself, he said, How many hired servants of my father’s have bread enough and to spare, and I perish with hunger! I will arise and go to my father, and will say unto him, Father, I have sinned against heaven, and before thee, and am no more worthy to be called thy son: make me as one of thy hired servants.

And he arose, and came to his father. But when he was yet a great way off, his father saw him, and had compassion, and ran, and fell on his neck, and kissed him. And the son said unto him, Father, I have sinned against heaven, and in thy sight, and am no more worthy to be called thy son. But the father said to his servants, Bring forth the best robe, and put it on him; and put a ring on his hand, and shoes on his feet: and bring hither the fatted calf, and kill it; and let us eat, and be merry: for this my son was dead, and is alive again; he was lost, and is found. And they began to be merry.

Now his elder son was in the field: and as he came and drew nigh to the house, he heard music and dancing. And he called one of the servants, and asked what these things meant… And he was angry, and would not go in: therefore came his father out, and intreated him.

And he answering said to his father, Lo, these many years do I serve thee, neither transgressed I at any time thy commandment: and yet thou never gavest me a kid, that I might make merry with my friends: but as soon as this thy son was come, which hath devoured thy living with harlots, thou hast killed for him the fatted calf. And he said unto him, Son, thou art ever with me, and all that I have is thine. It was meet that we should make merry, and be glad: for this thy brother was dead, and is alive again; and was lost, and is found.”

—Luke 15:11-32

Even before I became an atheist, this story bothered me. It’s supposed to be a beautiful lesson about forgiveness and redemption, but it’s always been obvious to me that the moral is skewed at best, and at worst outright bad.

What bugs me about this is that the older son was right to be angry. He stayed home, he worked in the fields, he was responsible and prudent, and he got nothing for it. Meanwhile, his brother squandered his entire inheritance on frivolous partying and only came crawling back when he was poor and hungry, and he wasn’t just welcomed, but richly and lavishly rewarded. What kind of message does this send?

If you want people to behave morally, you have to get the incentives straight. It’s certainly allowable to forgive repentant wrongdoers – after all, when people do evil, you should give them some motivation to stop – but shouldn’t we reserve the greatest rewards for people who did the right thing from the beginning? Doing anything else sends the message that what we value most highly isn’t “good all along”, but “evil for as long as you can get away with, then a turn to good as a last resort”.

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/daylightatheism/2016/06/the-bad-parable-of-the-prodigal-son/#sthash.PUbpClup.dpuf

Adam doesn't get it.
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1. Adam doesn't "get it" . . .
Sun Jun 26, 2016, 09:48 AM
Jun 2016

. . . because Adam rejects the very notion of God's grace.

Atheist Adam doesn't believe in God, he says. But if he did believe in God, what he would really want to be true is that he could work hard, and do "good," and show God that he, Adam, really, really measures up, and that God should except Adam's sincere efforts to make himself acceptable to God. And if God doesn't find Adam acceptable, well, pffftt, then who needs God anyway, right?

Man despises the cross of Christ Jesus because the cross tells man that he can never be "good" enough to be acceptable to God, can never live "right enough" to measure up to God's standard of righteousness, which is absolute sinless perfection. Now, of course, God offers that perfection -- the sinless life lived out by Jesus of Nazareth -- to man as a free gift, not because any man has, or ever could, do anything to deserve it or earn it, but simply because God, in His merciful graceful, imputes it to those who will receive it in faith. But the natural man, in his self-centered pride, cannot accept that. And so, the natural man, in his self-centered pride, will choose separation from God rather than accept the truth of his condition. "I'm going to live a good life as I see fit, and God better be satisfied with that, or else . . . ."

* * * *

“As Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up; so that whoever believes will in Him have eternal life.

“For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life. For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world might be saved through Him. He who believes in Him is not judged; he who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God."

John 3:14-18 (NASB).

The most beloved passage from the Bible, John 3:16, is also one of its most misunderstood, as it so often taken out of context. The "so loved the world" language does not speak to the "quantity" or "magnitude" of God's love for the world but, rather, to the manner in which God expressed His love for the world. Indeed, here, the Greek word that is translated "so" can be rendered "in this way."

In what way? In the way referenced in verse 14: ". . . even so must the Son of Man be lifted up" -- i.e., on the cross, as with the bronze serpent from Numbers 21, verse 9, so that any one who looks upon the cross, and believes, will live.

God does "love" atheist Adam, but not in the way Adam possibly imagines. God loved atheist Adam once and for all, and for one time only, at the cross of Christ Jesus. Not because there is anything whatsoever "good" in atheist Adam, or ever could be, but because the perfectly just and perfectly righteous God is also perfectly merciful.

 

rug

(82,333 posts)
2. I think Adam doesn't get it because he's a republican.
Sun Jun 26, 2016, 09:51 AM
Jun 2016
If you want people to behave morally, you have to get the incentives straight.

Jim__

(14,082 posts)
3. If nothing else, Lee should recognize the humanity of the story.
Sun Jun 26, 2016, 12:54 PM
Jun 2016
... But when he was yet a great way off, his father saw him, and had compassion, and ran, and fell on his neck, and kissed him. ...

... It was meet that we should make merry, and be glad: for this thy brother was dead, and is alive again; and was lost, and is found.


The son returns to his father, maybe because he recognizes his father's love. Some fathers' sons would rather starve than give their father the satisfaction of knowing they failed.

Sure the older brother would most likely resent the attention shown. That's normal. Does normal make it right? Should we even worry about what's right?

Even when we’re willing to forgive, the wrongdoer should have to put forth some proof that they’ll behave differently in the future, both for their sake and for everyone else’s. The prodigal son said he’d come back even if he had to work as a servant, but that commitment was never put to the test. ...


The story is about love not proof and tests.
 

rug

(82,333 posts)
4. I agree. I get his point but that comes off pretty cold.
Sun Jun 26, 2016, 02:55 PM
Jun 2016

One's child is one of the most enduring bonds we have, no matter.

struggle4progress

(118,327 posts)
5. "And thank you for all of the good things that we do in your name, like charity and, eh, forgiveness
Sun Jun 26, 2016, 06:18 PM
Jun 2016

-- that's an idea we would never come up with: that's for sure. You know that better than anybody. So, on behalf of all of us, thank you very much, and we really mean it. Amen."

Father Guido Sarducci

Igel

(35,337 posts)
6. A few things.
Sun Jun 26, 2016, 06:30 PM
Jun 2016

1. The parables point out some truth. They are not "truthful" in every way. Would a father rejoice if his son, long thought dead, returned? Yes. And he's naturally be more happy at the kid's return at that moment than during the years of slogging with the son that remained.

This is in parallel with the one lost sheep versus the 99 that weren't lost. It doesn't say what will happen to the wastrel, but does show that the father is happy to have a lost son return. Period. Provided that he's repentant and sorry, even if it's at the end. Hope springs eternal, and if you do wrong and then do right you can be forgiven. If you do good and then turn bad, what good you've done is usually forgotten.

2. It's not for the son to debate this. He's the son, and under authority. If somebody comes along and contracts for higher pay to do the same job I do with my boss, I'm not my boss' boss. I may think it unfair; but it's not up to me to decide what another can or should do with his stuff. This was in an advanced agrarian society, where I wouldn't be able to say, "I think rug isn't using her resources wisely, I will be a good citizen and make sure she acts wisely." It's always a good idea, we think, until somebody does it to us.

This is in parallel with some parable where a field owner hires men for the same pay but later and later in the day. The one who worked all day got the same pay as the one who worked a part-day.

No, it may not be fair. But if you're going to be humble and true to your word, there you go. People like to cite "blessed are the poor", but they are all ready to make war, be arrogant, and ignore all the rest of the good things. (As well as the synoptic passages where it's "poor in spirit"; but even in the stripped down "blessed are the poor, for ..." passage it's clear that the reason is that the poor are needy, know their needy, and are humble and grateful for what they receive. A lot of people that call themselves Xians really feel like they're entitled to what others have and to control what others have, while rejecting anybody telling them what to do with what they're given. They're entitled. But not Xian.

3. The eldest son would get 2/3 of the inheritance upon his father's death. That was the tradition at the time. While his brother was off partying and spending his inheritance, presumably more wealth was accrued. None of it, old or new, would go to the younger brother--he's cut out of the will at this point. "All that I have is thine"--it's not been reapportioned. The wastrel may be robed and get a ring and shoes and food, but his future is grim. He may do a bit better than eat carob pods (the pig food, according to at least some commentators) but he's not going to be wealthy. He'll have no money, no land, no livestock. Most likely he'd be his brother's retainee or hired hand: Allowed to live there, perhaps with his family, as long as he obeys and works. He'd be allowed to accrue money and might be able to prosper, but his life's going to be grim for a long time. He might learn a manual skill, but that was dog's work at the time and very low status.

If the older brother had wanted to, he could have done the same with much of his inheritance. He's pissed because he's been responsible and didn't screw things up. Not a pretty sight.

 

rug

(82,333 posts)
7. The vineyard workers had a stronger case.
Sun Jun 26, 2016, 06:49 PM
Jun 2016
The Laborers in the Vineyard

Matthew 20:1-16

20 “For the kingdom of heaven is like a landowner who went out early in the morning to hire laborers for his vineyard.
2 After agreeing with the laborers for the usual daily wage, he sent them into his vineyard.
3 When he went out about nine o’clock, he saw others standing idle in the marketplace;
4 and he said to them, ‘You also go into the vineyard, and I will pay you whatever is right.’ So they went.
5 When he went out again about noon and about three o’clock, he did the same.
6 And about five o’clock he went out and found others standing around; and he said to them, ‘Why are you standing here idle all day?’
7 They said to him, ‘Because no one has hired us.’ He said to them, ‘You also go into the vineyard.’
8 When evening came, the owner of the vineyard said to his manager, ‘Call the laborers and give them their pay, beginning with the last and then going to the first.’
9 When those hired about five o’clock came, each of them received the usual daily wage.
10 Now when the first came, they thought they would receive more; but each of them also received the usual daily wage.
11 And when they received it, they grumbled against the landowner,
12 saying, ‘These last worked only one hour, and you have made them equal to us who have borne the burden of the day and the scorching heat.’
13 But he replied to one of them, ‘Friend, I am doing you no wrong; did you not agree with me for the usual daily wage?
14 Take what belongs to you and go; I choose to give to this last the same as I give to you.
15 Am I not allowed to do what I choose with what belongs to me? Or are you envious because I am generous?’
16 So the last will be first, and the first will be last.”

I'm glad mercy is not measured by a time card.
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