Religion
Related: About this forumLet's defend misogynist patriarchal authoritarian religions
that demand women dress in ridiculous cumbersome garb with claims that the women oppressed by these religions are making emancipating choices in attire.
Who's with me?
rug
(82,333 posts)okasha
(11,573 posts)A woman on the ground, surrounded by four armed men, forced to strip. The imagery inevitably suggests that the next step is rape.
Her body does not belong to the state. Her body, her choice.
rug
(82,333 posts)And his only defense is snark.
okasha
(11,573 posts)only as a means to pursue opposition to Islam.
I wonder what he makes of the fact that among the Muslim Tuareg people, the men veil; the women do not.
rug
(82,333 posts)Islam is such a monolith.
okasha
(11,573 posts)jonno99
(2,620 posts)http://www.pri.org/stories/2011-10-29/tuaregs-5-things-you-need-know
skepticscott
(13,029 posts)Who claimed that posters here only stood up for LGBT rights as an excuse to bash religion.
msongs
(67,413 posts)police in her personal life
okasha
(11,573 posts)away from the beach. For all you know she's a doctor or lawyer and dresses according to the standards of her profession.
cleanhippie
(19,705 posts)Willingly, then dresses in modern, western style clothes for work.
Brettongarcia
(2,262 posts)... every year should not be forgotten.
One woman being forced to strip is very bad. But thousands of religiously-motivated murders, war deaths, every year - and historically, billions? - might be considered worse by some.
Response to Warren Stupidity (Original post)
MichiganVote This message was self-deleted by its author.
Warren Stupidity
(48,181 posts)that demand women dress in ridiculous cumbersome garb with claims that the women oppressed by these religions are making emancipating choices in attire.
Who's with me?
skepticscott
(13,029 posts)that if a woman is in an abusive relationship, she must like it, or have chosen it, because otherwise she'd just leave, right?
rug
(82,333 posts)Seems he's not up to the task.
skepticscott
(13,029 posts)doing anything in that picture. Why would I be either obliged or able to explain their behavior?
Feel free to ask them to explain.
rug
(82,333 posts)Because . . . . it's religious garb!
skepticscott
(13,029 posts)You asked me to explain other people's behavior. I gave up trying to explain the behavior of dickheads a long time ago, ruggie.
rug
(82,333 posts)JoePhilly
(27,787 posts)One of them is wearing SUN GLASSES for Christ's sake!!!
guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)for Christ's sake?
Stand in the corner.
JoePhilly
(27,787 posts)I considered going with this image instead ...
guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)that Jesus was a gun owner.
saidsimplesimon
(7,888 posts)with humour. Thank you for this zinger, guillaumeb.
guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)I just made it. After Gene Wilder's passing the world needs more silly.
jonno99
(2,620 posts)more importantly, they can leave the order any time they like - without fear for their personal safety.
JoePhilly
(27,787 posts)First, there are plenty of Muslim women in this country who would be under zero threat to their personal safety for not dressing that way. In fact, I know a woman who grew up Catholic, and then converted to Islam when she married her husband, a Muslim American from Moracco. She went from micro skirts, to head to toe coverage. Her choice.
The only difference between and nun, and a Muslim women is the order they join. Both tend to join early in life. My friend not with-standing.
But if we want to say everyone should be allowed to dress as they wish ... we can not then attack women for dressing in whatever manner they select.
Religions tend to make women dress in specific ways ... as yet another example ...
jonno99
(2,620 posts)was refuted.
Not to mention that it is not only the Catholic schools where the kids wear uniforms:
https://nces.ed.gov/fastfacts/display.asp?id=50
JoePhilly
(27,787 posts)The fact that other schools have adopted them, at times, says only that uniforms help ensure compliant behavior.
Which is the goal of every Religion on the planet. Compliant Behavior.
Nuns, being very Religious "choose" to wear a "Habit". It is how they express their Religious belief.
Why is it strange to think that women in other religions would "choose" to wear clothing that expresses their Religious beliefs.
Personally, I think all Religious belief is nonsense. But I won't try to stop anyone from believing. And so I also will not try to stop them from dressing however they want to dress as a result. How they dress has ZERO impact on my life.
Now ... if they start trying to pass laws that require adherence to any of their nonsensical religious beliefs, then I have an issue. And I would fight that.
But if I said that I get to decide which Religious attire should be BANNED, then I'd actually be doing the same thing as the Religious nut jobs.
jonno99
(2,620 posts)Perhaps, but more importantly (IMHO), uniforms help create an environment more likely to be free of the peer pressure and anxiety students would otherwise contend with concerning their "dress style".
Not to mention the lower cost - a big plus for many families.
tymorial
(3,433 posts)This site is literally infected with it.
TexasTowelie
(112,236 posts)how dare you take away women's cumbersome garments when winter is coming soon to New Hampshire.
Warpy
(111,270 posts)Since there aren't any religious vigilantes in my 'hood, Muslim immigrant women tend to move from the full body veil to the hijab pretty quickly and I've seen a few out and about with no hair covering. They can progress to western clothing at their own speed or not progress at all, their choice.
Why the hell would what any woman chooses to wear bother you?
Well, I mean beyond a tired complaint about the fashion police never being around when you really need them.
Major Nikon
(36,827 posts)The fashion police are a real thing in many parts of the world and in other areas it just isn't that much less compulsory. The whole idea behind restrictive women's clothing in oppressive religious culture is that women are considered tools of the devil. Any furtherance of that idea should be rejected by all decent people.
Lordquinton
(7,886 posts)In the name of their liberation, of course. The Abrahamic religions are build on the foundation of shaming women's bodies for what Eve did to Adam. They were free and innocent, and then a talking snake convinced her to eat an apple and poof women are forced to cover up forever!
Even today in the great USA women are forced to cover up, and face consequences if they don't. All because of a talking snake.
rug
(82,333 posts)Do you support that?
Lordquinton
(7,886 posts)simple question with a yes/no answer. And you're at least 3 years overdue answering it.
rug
(82,333 posts)What a stupid question:"What medical procedures do you support?"
If it weren't for your seething anti-catholicism, you would not overlook the issue is the legalization of abortion versus the criminalization of abortion.
Lordquinton
(7,886 posts)Don't pretend this isn't an important question Rug. And you cannot compare it to any other procedure.
lol at your last line, co-opting the language of the oppressed so it seems like you're the victim in any situation.
Now, answer the question Rug, or I'm gonna have to assume that your reluctance to answer is a yes, like that last time we had this go around and you concluded that you refused to answer because you might get banned for it.
rug
(82,333 posts)Read my reply again. It is complete.
You can assume anything you like since you obviously prefer imaginary thoughts to reality.
okasha
(11,573 posts)what we have here is armed representatives of a secular state policing a woman's body in the name of secularism.
And by the way, Adam had to cover up.too.
Lordquinton
(7,886 posts)she would be forced to wear a body covering, by an armed representative of the state. Either way Religion is to blame, and the same core beliefs at that.
okasha
(11,573 posts)Nice attempt to deflect. Didn't work.
guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)Or is forced stripping by the state something you approve of if it is done in the name of "tolerance"?
Bizarre.
Lordquinton
(7,886 posts)There are parts of the world where women can be killed for not covering up (Of maimed with acid, or what have you) but when that comes up we get flooded with tales of women who choose to wear a covering, and the fact that the places on earth where a woman can actually choose to go uncovered is a number approaching zero.
But hey, this actually isolated incident that has already had a stop put to it is enough of an excuse for an atheist hate fest, so carry on.
guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)Forcing tolerance by being intolerant sets a great example.
Lordquinton
(7,886 posts)that, as always was conveniently ignored?
guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)Forced clothing choices are forced choices.
guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)So how does this make the tolerant secular state of France better?
trotsky
(49,533 posts)But I don't think we as liberals should fool ourselves into thinking all that many people - especially women, and especially women in misogynist patriarchal authoritarian religions - truly have the freedom to choose. When the "choice" is essentially dress a certain way or face judgment from a god (or rather, men who think they speak for a god), how freely can that choice be made?
guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)Other than that, the responses to this trash are great.
Warren Stupidity
(48,181 posts)cleanhippie
(19,705 posts)Your knee-jerk, inflammatory response is fully expected.
DonCoquixote
(13,616 posts)as much as you may hate religion, do you really want the cops to be able to threaten people in the name of getting rid of it? It's one thing to say Religion sucks, it is another to involve cops. If you do not understand why unleashing cops is dangerous, there are people in places like Baltimore MD and Ferguson MO that can explain that far better than I can, especially the ones who are dead because the police were only "doing their job."
cleanhippie
(19,705 posts)Wait, lemme answer that: no.
rug
(82,333 posts)Lemme make it easy for you.
Circle one:
YES
NO
cleanhippie
(19,705 posts)That's the story you're taking about, right?
rug
(82,333 posts)cleanhippie
(19,705 posts)DonCoquixote
(13,616 posts)where your response to a woman being harassed my police was a smiley face of laughing and rolling on the floor as well as doubting she dressed in secular dress for work, as if that was any of your business. If you were not intending to make fun of the woman being harassed, you may want to clarify.
Let me clarify what could easily be misinterpreted:
"13. Lol. Sure, that's the most probable scenario, that she's not forced to wear a burkini but does it
Willingly, then dresses in modern, western style clothes for work."
Many Muslim women do exactly that, but then again, in a truly secular society whose business is it? At the very least, you may want to clarify why it was POLICE business if you are going to post snark about a photo that already made some women concerned.
trotsky
(49,533 posts)Or is it perfect?
Iggo
(47,558 posts)Fuck religion.
rug
(82,333 posts)Fuck hypocrisy.
Agnosticsherbet
(11,619 posts)I have no right to criticize her.
Those "misogynist patriarchal authoritarian religions" are big enough to defend themselves.