Religion
Related: About this forumSaline Co. Atheist Society submits 'wall of separation' monument for state capital grounds
KTHV Digital , KTHV 5:25 PM. EDT
September 07, 2016
LITTLE ROCK, Ark. (KTHV) -- The Saline Atheist and Skeptic Society has submitted an application to the Secretary of State’s office for the Arkansas Capitol Arts and Grounds Commission to be reviewed ahead of their September 13 meeting.
This meeting should now include submissions for a Ten Commandments monument, a Satanic Temple Baphomet statue, and now the secular community’s Wall of Separation monument.
“The founding fathers knew that separating religion and government was a good idea, which is why they placed the concept in our 1st Amendment,” said Thomas in a press release. “In looking for a way to participate on the lawn, a physical, decorative brick wall placed between the religious monuments and our Capitol building seemed fitting.”
The wall, which will be eight feet in height, will be financed through a brick-by-brick campaign that will "encourage citizens, both religious and non-religious, that value the wall of separation concept to join in."
http://www.thv11.com/news/local/saline-co-atheist-society-submits-wall-of-separation-monument-for-state-capital-grounds/315229889
https://www.facebook.com/Saline-Atheist-Skeptic-Society-1559807887590461/
Building walls is popular this year.
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ret5hd
(20,522 posts)
rug
(82,333 posts)Goblinmonger
(22,340 posts)talk about a bridge of separation between church and state? Did Madison think there should be a bridge?
Sad you want religion to have a bridge into government.
rug
(82,333 posts)keep slaves when he wrote his famous letter?
Gentlemen
The affectionate sentiments of esteem & approbation which you are so good as to express towards me, on behalf of the Danbury Baptist association, give me the highest satisfaction. my duties dictate a faithful & zealous pursuit of the interests of my constituents, and in proportion as they are persuaded of my fidelity to those duties, the discharge of them becomes more & more pleasing.
Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between man & his god, that he owes account to none other for his faith or his worship, that the legitimate powers of government reach actions only, and not opinions, I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof, thus building a wall of separation between church and state. [Congress thus inhibited from acts respecting religion, and the Executive authorised only to execute their acts, I have refrained from presenting even occasional performances of devotion presented indeed legally where an Executive is the legal head of a national church, but subject here, as religious exercises only to the voluntary regulations and discipline of each respective sect.] Adhering to this expression of the supreme will of the nation in behalf of the rights of conscience, I shall see with sincere satisfaction the progress of those sentiments which tend to restore to man all his natural rights, convinced he has no natural right in opposition to his social duties.
I reciprocate your kind prayers for the protection and blessing of the common Father and creator of man, and tender you for yourselves and your religious association, assurances of my high respect & esteem.
(signed)
Th Jefferson
Jan.1.1802.
Why is his last paragraph never cited?
"Sad" that you're a one-trick pony in the realm of ideas.
Goblinmonger
(22,340 posts)But let's go back to what you seem to be arguing for. I am clearly supporting a wall of separation between church and state. You want bridges. Why is that?
rug
(82,333 posts)The fact is that letter letter was written a decade after the First Amendment was adopted.
The fact is the counstruction of the First Amenment is what determiines the propriety of governmental action, not the construction of a letter written by a private citizen, nor the construction of a wall.
I prefer bridges to walls because I despise tribalism, especially when it comes wrapped in an air of unwarrented intellectualism.
cpwm17
(3,829 posts)With the wall, all citizens with all religious beliefs are equal. Perhaps your "tribe" would end up on top without the wall.
rug
(82,333 posts)cpwm17
(3,829 posts)There's a right-wing minority of atheists that do treat it as a tribe.
I don't support tribalism either, but mixing religion and government does promote tribalism and will make me feel like I belong to some sort of tribe.
rug
(82,333 posts)Then the tribes become more important than the issue.
I don't support religion infiltrating government any more than I do the reverse.
Goblinmonger
(22,340 posts)Last edited Sat Sep 10, 2016, 09:32 PM - Edit history (1)
And it was pretty clear in there.
Do you have something that says Jefferson changed his mind in the ten years from writing the Bill of Rights to that quotation?
One can fight against tribalism while still making sure that religion stays out of government. I don't usually see arguments against the wall of separation on a liberal web site.
rug
(82,333 posts)George Mason wrote the Virginia Declaration.
James Madison wrote the Bill of Rights.
You should read it. It does not say what you think it says.
That religion, or the duty which we owe to our Creator, and the manner of discharging it, can be directed only by reason and conviction, not by force or violence; and therefore all men are equally entitled to the free exercise of religion, according to the dictates of conscience; and that it is the mutual duty of all to practise Christian forbearance, love, and charity toward each other.
As to your hoary ad hominem, along with misstarting facts, you're imputing opinions that are not there. Now why is that?
Your attempt at policing DU is rather comical given your sojourn at JPR.
http://jackpineradicals.com/boards/topic/hello-everyone-ive-made-the-move/
I guess it was not a big enough playground for you so you are not "completely done with that other site".
Goblinmonger
(22,340 posts)Jefferson was a huge impact on Madison's writing of the bill of rights.
I see you have no answer to why you want religion to have a bridge into government so you have to resort to the fact that I'm on JPR? Like that means anything. I haven't posted here much, either, so don't hurt yourself trying to figure out any of my motivations.
rug
(82,333 posts)You know, monger, it's a base tactic in debate to put words in another's mouth. I suppose you consider it easier to debate your own words than my actual words.
Then the tribes become more important than the issue.
I don't support religion infiltrating government any more than I do the reverse.
I am so sorry about your internet angst. What to do? Where to go? Boo hoo.
Goblinmonger
(22,340 posts)So you don't want to defend religion having a bridge into government so you devolve into some other unimportant discussion.
I'm done. Go ahead and have the last word.
rug
(82,333 posts)Have the integrity to attack my own words and not what you wish I would say.
I doubt it will happen. In truth, you haven't changed a whit, monger.
Here's your last word: are you again "completely done"?
cpwm17
(3,829 posts)It's inappropriate for a free nation to support religion since that would mean the government would be playing favorites.
We should all be equal citizens. Selfish theocrats like to claim they own governments and that they are the true citizens. They make progress by mixing government with religion.
rug
(82,333 posts)This is about a wall.
cpwm17
(3,829 posts)
