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deucemagnet

(4,549 posts)
Sat Apr 28, 2012, 09:23 AM Apr 2012

Near Death, Distorted

This is a piece in Salon about the earlier NDE article.

Near-death, distorted

Salon has had a redesign, which is fine; it seems to do this periodically just to confuse us. I’ll adjust to that, but what I don’t like is that the first thing I saw highlighted was an article so full of woo that for a moment I thought I’d stumbled onto the Huffington Post. We are now supposed to believe that science has explained near-death experiences (NDEs), and the answer is proof of life after death. It’s all nonsense; some editor somewhere needs to learn some critical thinking, because this article is filed under “neuroscience” when it ought to be in a category called “bullshit.”

The first clue that this is going to be bad is the author, Mario Beauregard. Beauregard was coauthor with Denyse O’Leary of one of the worst, that is, most incompetently written and idiotically conceived, books I’ve ever read, “The Spiritual Brain.” It’s not just that he thought it sensible to team up with a well-known intelligent-design crank, but that the content is unreadable and the “science” is gobbledy-gook — Beauregard is a well-established kook, and here he is, writing for Salon.

NDEs are evidence of nothing but the creative power of the human mind. NDE proponents are constantly trotting out the same tired old anecdotes and the same tired old bogus misinterpretations, and this article is just more of the same. If you’ve ever looked into the NDE literature, you’ll know that two cases that are repeatedly brought up are the 20- to 30-year-old stories of Pam and Maria’s shoe; they have become something close to legend. These stories are poorly documented — “Maria,” for instance, can’t even be found in any hospital records, despite a story that details many medical details. Beauregard blithely recounts this anecdotal story as evidence that NDEs are real.

More: http://www.salon.com/2012/04/26/near_death_distorted/


Interesting that he doesn't even bring up what I believe is the most damning evidence against any supernatural explanation for NDEs, the fact that fighter pilots training in a centrifuge have similar experiences without dying or being near death, but simply by temporarily losing blood flow to the brain.

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djean111

(14,255 posts)
1. fighter pilots training in a centrifuge have similar experiences without dying or being near death -
Sat Apr 28, 2012, 09:49 AM
Apr 2012

Not that it matters whether anyone believes in NDEs or not - I would say losing blood flow to the brain is most likely interpreted by any consciousness as "near death" - unless you think there is actually a tiny little committee in there somewhere, deciding if losing blood flow to the brain is the result of an injury or a spin around the room. And I believe that if there is some sort of equipment malfunction, or problem with the brain, "Real Death" could actually, you know, happen.
Having had an NDE, I think of them as natural, not supernatural, and I could care less about Maria and the Sneaker - OOBE is not the same as an NDE.

I sort of wish people would stop writing about them, because I confess I don't understand the need by some to sneeringly refute them.

deucemagnet

(4,549 posts)
2. "interpreted by the consciousness" is the important caveat here
Sat Apr 28, 2012, 10:15 AM
Apr 2012

Yes, I agree that the centrifuge creates conditions physiologically similar to what happens just prior to death. And I agree that the phenomenon is based on our physiology (or natural, as you say). Nobody, not even the author of the piece, is refuting them, only the claim that they are evidence of life after death.

 

djean111

(14,255 posts)
3. Ah, okay, I see your point.
Sat Apr 28, 2012, 10:44 AM
Apr 2012

I always roll my eyes at anyone claiming proof - one way or the other.
Like religion, there is no proof; you either believe or don't, and belief makes not one whit of difference to whether an afterlife actually exists or not. Seems a huge waste of time to try. It is all personal and anyway, everything's eventual - we don't really know until we die.


 

oilpro2

(80 posts)
5. I don't see any of these experiences as anything but dreams.
Sat Apr 28, 2012, 12:57 PM
Apr 2012

True, they may not be the usual dreams we have, because they are brought upon us by traumatic events acting to separate the body from the mind, but they are as valid as NDE's as the guy who thought he was out fishing.

NDE's, as events, to me, seem like nothing more nor less than a certain kind of dream. As their religious relevance, no more than dreaming about fishing proves that a creator is a giant whale.

Thats my opinion

(2,001 posts)
6. I've learned never to question the esoteric experience of anothr person. Just to listen to their
Sun Apr 29, 2012, 12:08 AM
Apr 2012

testimony without judgement.

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