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guillaumeb

(42,641 posts)
Tue Oct 3, 2017, 01:35 PM Oct 2017

Good news: President Trump, this is no time for prayer

From the article:

President Trump addressed the nation on the mass murder in Las Vegas, in which at least 58 people (at last count) have died, and in which hundreds are wounded. It is the worst mass shooting in recent American history.
Except, President Trump did not exactly sound presidential.
He sounded pastoral. He delivered a sermon, complete with phrases from the Psalms — calling upon God who is the “healer of broken hearts.”


And also:

Americans embrace a common “civil religion” with certain fundamental beliefs, values, holidays, and rituals, parallel to, or independent of, their chosen religion.



To read more:

http://religionnews.com/2017/10/02/las-vegas-trump/
42 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Good news: President Trump, this is no time for prayer (Original Post) guillaumeb Oct 2017 OP
Also from the article: guillaumeb Oct 2017 #1
Interesting, so you're saying religion is the problem? trotsky Oct 2017 #2
No, I am not. Nor is the author. guillaumeb Oct 2017 #4
Oh good, so then you've given up on this silly idea of things like "patriotism" being... trotsky Oct 2017 #6
Once again, you missed the point. guillaumeb Oct 2017 #8
I did? trotsky Oct 2017 #21
I already did tell you. guillaumeb Oct 2017 #25
Tell me again. trotsky Oct 2017 #29
I also have trouble understanding what the hell you are trying to say Angry Dragon Oct 2017 #10
Did you read the entire piece? guillaumeb Oct 2017 #11
prayers don't work Angry Dragon Oct 2017 #13
One possible reading, but will you admit that there can be others? eom guillaumeb Oct 2017 #14
sure....there can be others.......the author is the only one that knows what he was trying to say Angry Dragon Oct 2017 #17
Such as... Lordquinton Oct 2017 #32
Such as, obviously, the opinion of the writer. guillaumeb Oct 2017 #34
That was implied Lordquinton Oct 2017 #35
My own view is that Trump seems invariably to choose an inappropriate response. guillaumeb Oct 2017 #36
That is reasonable Lordquinton Oct 2017 #41
Leader and followers adhering to the script. guillaumeb Oct 2017 #42
I don't know if its wise to encourage Donald Trump to get angry about anything. AtheistCrusader Oct 2017 #3
He sounds as if he has been angry since birth. eom guillaumeb Oct 2017 #5
selfish ego Angry Dragon Oct 2017 #12
All ego? guillaumeb Oct 2017 #15
I would say no.............mostly ego and some insecurity Angry Dragon Oct 2017 #16
And to me, the impression of a man who can never overcome how his father treated him. guillaumeb Oct 2017 #18
BTW, this isn't "news" at all but simply an opinion piece. trotsky Oct 2017 #7
Are you unfamiliar with the concept of commenting on a piece? guillaumeb Oct 2017 #9
Comment all you like. An opinion piece still won't be news. trotsky Oct 2017 #20
If you read the entire piece, and I make no assumptions here, guillaumeb Oct 2017 #24
Again, it's not about the piece. trotsky Oct 2017 #28
Okay. guillaumeb Oct 2017 #30
No need. trotsky Oct 2017 #31
Despite the URL's wording, religionnews.com is not a news website, MineralMan Oct 2017 #19
I understand your final opinion. guillaumeb Oct 2017 #22
"an opinion piece is, in fact, an opinion piece" trotsky Oct 2017 #23
I recognized what I read. Perhaps you and others missed the bottom line of the article? guillaumeb Oct 2017 #26
We merely commented on your erroneous title for your post. trotsky Oct 2017 #27
Seems like a fake news site Lordquinton Oct 2017 #33
To be fair, they do have the word "opinion" near the top of the page too. trotsky Oct 2017 #37
Is this "Good news" similar to the MineralMan Oct 2017 #38
As you well know, the poster "controls" the title of a post in most groups. guillaumeb Oct 2017 #39
My commentaries here are always my opinions, as stated in my MineralMan Oct 2017 #40

guillaumeb

(42,641 posts)
1. Also from the article:
Tue Oct 3, 2017, 01:37 PM
Oct 2017
But, that is not the vision that we need.
No longer pastoral. No longer the sanctification of what is. American civil religion needs to be prophetic as well. From what is — to what should be.

trotsky

(49,533 posts)
6. Oh good, so then you've given up on this silly idea of things like "patriotism" being...
Tue Oct 3, 2017, 03:09 PM
Oct 2017

on par with actual religion.

Sweet. Thanks!

guillaumeb

(42,641 posts)
8. Once again, you missed the point.
Tue Oct 3, 2017, 06:21 PM
Oct 2017

But you are continuing your pattern of dismissing what does not conform to your own beliefs.

Points for consistency, but not positive points.

trotsky

(49,533 posts)
29. Tell me again.
Wed Oct 4, 2017, 12:41 PM
Oct 2017

You know how stupid I am.

Use your own words. Short ones since I have trouble understanding otherwise.

guillaumeb

(42,641 posts)
11. Did you read the entire piece?
Tue Oct 3, 2017, 06:40 PM
Oct 2017

If so, what do you think that the author of the piece was attempting to say?

guillaumeb

(42,641 posts)
34. Such as, obviously, the opinion of the writer.
Wed Oct 4, 2017, 01:51 PM
Oct 2017

Or, an opinion that a President is expected to fill many roles.

Lordquinton

(7,886 posts)
35. That was implied
Wed Oct 4, 2017, 01:56 PM
Oct 2017

As we are discussing an opinion piece. The writer, Trotsky's and.... What? You have something in mind?

guillaumeb

(42,641 posts)
36. My own view is that Trump seems invariably to choose an inappropriate response.
Wed Oct 4, 2017, 02:01 PM
Oct 2017

No matter the situation, the venue, his words always seem awkward and forced, except when he is at his rallies where he plays his role as the tough guy talking to his followers.

Almost as if he cannot understand how people should respond in situations. Like saying "have a nice day" to people who have lost everything to a hurricane.

Lordquinton

(7,886 posts)
41. That is reasonable
Thu Oct 5, 2017, 12:26 AM
Oct 2017

He's like an alien trying to mimic human patterns and it just comes off in the uncanny valley.

But, every word is directly to his followers, and he doesn't have to say the whole thing, they can fill in the rest.

AtheistCrusader

(33,982 posts)
3. I don't know if its wise to encourage Donald Trump to get angry about anything.
Tue Oct 3, 2017, 02:17 PM
Oct 2017

The orange road rage simian is quite capable of it on his own.

guillaumeb

(42,641 posts)
18. And to me, the impression of a man who can never overcome how his father treated him.
Tue Oct 3, 2017, 07:16 PM
Oct 2017

So much insecurity and defensiveness, and anger.

trotsky

(49,533 posts)
7. BTW, this isn't "news" at all but simply an opinion piece.
Tue Oct 3, 2017, 05:26 PM
Oct 2017

So I'm not sure why you felt the need to slap your "good news" prefix on it. Force of habit, I guess?

guillaumeb

(42,641 posts)
9. Are you unfamiliar with the concept of commenting on a piece?
Tue Oct 3, 2017, 06:24 PM
Oct 2017

If so, it might be good to google the term, but it happens constantly here, including in your own posts.

guillaumeb

(42,641 posts)
24. If you read the entire piece, and I make no assumptions here,
Wed Oct 4, 2017, 12:13 PM
Oct 2017

but if you did read the entire piece, you might have read this ending note:

RNS columns are direct-published opinion pieces. They are not always edited and reflect the views only of the author. ,

indicating that these pieces are direct-published opinion pieces. (Bold is my addition for clarity.)

So we are in agreement that these opinion pieces are in fact opinion pieces?

trotsky

(49,533 posts)
31. No need.
Wed Oct 4, 2017, 12:54 PM
Oct 2017

This was just a simple error on your part.

The humiliating defeats come when you try to label atheism a "belief system," or try to suggest that no one who does a bad thing in the name of their religion is actually acting according to their religion as you define it, which you can't do for others but only for yourself, but which you do anyway, but then point out that you're not either so there nyah nyah.

Those humiliating defeats.

MineralMan

(146,325 posts)
19. Despite the URL's wording, religionnews.com is not a news website,
Wed Oct 4, 2017, 09:35 AM
Oct 2017

good or bad. It is a repository for some writers' opinions.

Opinions are not news items. They are just someone's opinion about something.

Here's one of my opinions: "Civil religion" is a contradiction of terms. It's a false construct used to argue that there is some connection between laws and religious beliefs.

guillaumeb

(42,641 posts)
22. I understand your final opinion.
Wed Oct 4, 2017, 12:10 PM
Oct 2017

As to the title of the organization, I trust that the average DU reader will recognize that an opinion piece that is specifically labelled at the bottom of the piece as an opinion piece is, in fact, an opinion piece.

trotsky

(49,533 posts)
27. We merely commented on your erroneous title for your post.
Wed Oct 4, 2017, 12:40 PM
Oct 2017

Rather than simply admit error and let it go, you have to make it into a silly fight.

Lordquinton

(7,886 posts)
33. Seems like a fake news site
Wed Oct 4, 2017, 01:32 PM
Oct 2017

If they put opinion at the bottom, where most people don't get to, but the site claims news. Huge warning sign there.

trotsky

(49,533 posts)
37. To be fair, they do have the word "opinion" near the top of the page too.
Wed Oct 4, 2017, 02:26 PM
Oct 2017

Even though it's in much lighter gray than the rest of the text, of course. Just another little thing that should cause a little concern about its legitimacy.

MineralMan

(146,325 posts)
38. Is this "Good news" similar to the
Wed Oct 4, 2017, 02:32 PM
Oct 2017

"dynamic equivalence" of Eugene Nida's "Good News" translation of the Bible? Meaning that it is sort of news and sort of a translation, but not really either?

Is it news at all, or even good at all? Based on the last quoted paragraph in your post, I'd say it's neither. The concept of "civil religion" seems bogus to me, in that in conflates religion with civil society, which is not necessarily based on anything spiritual at all.

I'm often puzzled by articles, stories, opinion pieces and other assorted collections of words that you post from religionnews.com. They rarely seem like news stories, and often like poorly thought-out opinion that should have been revisited and edited for meaning.

Simply calling a website a "news" site does not make it so. News is generally accepted as an objective telling of a story that actually happened somewhere, with as little bias as possible. That's how I judge news. The more bias evident in the story, the less value it has to me as news.

That same last paragraph you quoted is like that. It is a statement that is clearly not objectively true at all. Of course, there is a disclaimer about the opinion piece being an opinion piece at the link, but you referred to it as "Good news." I'm thinking that your sense of "dynamic equivalence" is off just a little bit, perhaps.

guillaumeb

(42,641 posts)
39. As you well know, the poster "controls" the title of a post in most groups.
Wed Oct 4, 2017, 03:14 PM
Oct 2017

So if a poster labels a post, such as I did, it represents an opinion, very similar to your signature line.

The site that I use has a mixture of reporting and opinion, similar to magazines such as Time, and The Nation, and many others so that format is a familiar one.

You speak of being puzzled by what I post on the subject, and I must confess that I am often similarly puzzled as to the relevance (and motivation) behind why you post your various personal commentaries centered around religion, but I respect your right to post whatever thoughts occur to you on the subject of religion.

MineralMan

(146,325 posts)
40. My commentaries here are always my opinions, as stated in my
Wed Oct 4, 2017, 03:28 PM
Oct 2017

signature line. There is never any confusion. If I quote from a link, though, I provide the link and use a title that reflects the contents. If there is any confusion, due to the excerpt limitations, I'll add additional explanation.

Almost all of my posts in this group, however, are my opinion and thoughts about something. I never pretend they are anything else. They're openers for discussions, in which I am certain to participate and answer any replies that need answers.

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