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MineralMan

(146,317 posts)
Mon Oct 9, 2017, 08:21 PM Oct 2017

A number of the Founding Fathers were Deists.

They believed that some sort of entity was responsible for the creation of the Universe, but rejected the formal religions created by humans.

It must be remembered that science was still in its infancy at the time, and no explanation for a rational cosmology had yet been developed. They knew no other plausible explanation for the beginning of the Universe.

Had they lived in the 20th century, most of those deists would likely have been atheists, I think. They had reason, but not enough knowledge to find another explanation.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Age_of_Reason

19 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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A number of the Founding Fathers were Deists. (Original Post) MineralMan Oct 2017 OP
Or, guillaumeb Oct 2017 #1
Unlikely. trotsky Oct 2017 #13
So you have proof of your feeling? guillaumeb Oct 2017 #16
Deists reject the idea of a personal creator. trotsky Oct 2017 #17
Thomas Paine has a good explanation of deism flyingfysh Oct 2017 #2
I liked Deism from the first time I heard about it, elleng Oct 2017 #3
These were men who knew how much damage the church/state DK504 Oct 2017 #4
Why is it have to be either a theist or an atheist?? Angry Dragon Oct 2017 #5
Without proof one must prefer the null hypothesis. longship Oct 2017 #7
Atheists either believe there is no god or that there is not one Angry Dragon Oct 2017 #8
I am not going to play semantic games here. longship Oct 2017 #9
Belief and knowledge are not the same thing. Act_of_Reparation Oct 2017 #12
This is what I am going on Angry Dragon Oct 2017 #15
That definition of agnostic is particularly bad. Act_of_Reparation Oct 2017 #18
I an sticking with it............. Angry Dragon Oct 2017 #19
Technically, "agnostic" isn't a position right in between theism and atheism. trotsky Oct 2017 #14
Ethan Allen flamingdem Oct 2017 #6
I learned that in high school. murielm99 Oct 2017 #10
Now, in the age of opinion Miigwech Oct 2017 #11

guillaumeb

(42,641 posts)
16. So you have proof of your feeling?
Tue Oct 10, 2017, 12:30 PM
Oct 2017

Obviously not, but you are entitled to your feeling on this matter.

trotsky

(49,533 posts)
17. Deists reject the idea of a personal creator.
Tue Oct 10, 2017, 12:51 PM
Oct 2017

It's kind of what the word means, dude.

LOL, don't you ever get tired of humiliating yourself? I mean, I hope not, because it sure is fun to watch.

flyingfysh

(1,990 posts)
2. Thomas Paine has a good explanation of deism
Mon Oct 9, 2017, 08:29 PM
Oct 2017

If I remember correctly, it is at the end of "The Age of Reason". Of course, this same book was vehemently criticized by religious people, even though many of its conclusions match the conclusions of modern scholars. I think Teddy Roosevelt called Paine "a filthy atheist".

When Thomas Jefferson was running for President, there were those who called him an atheist, but he won anyway.

elleng

(130,964 posts)
3. I liked Deism from the first time I heard about it,
Mon Oct 9, 2017, 08:30 PM
Oct 2017

I may have been 10 at the time. Later I learned a few things, and as you/wiki suggest, Atheism/Agnosticism became compelling.

DK504

(3,847 posts)
4. These were men who knew how much damage the church/state
Mon Oct 9, 2017, 09:19 PM
Oct 2017

mingling has done through out history and they knew there was no way that a country could stand a chance if separation of church and state were a primary factor in the country.

All the so called "Christians" have never heard of Deists or what they were or what they stood for, basic civics 101.

Angry Dragon

(36,693 posts)
5. Why is it have to be either a theist or an atheist??
Mon Oct 9, 2017, 09:46 PM
Oct 2017

When neither of those positions can be proved.

I am an agnostic, a person with an open mind. Neither one of those two former positions have an open mind.

Both of those groups have closed minds.

longship

(40,416 posts)
7. Without proof one must prefer the null hypothesis.
Mon Oct 9, 2017, 10:52 PM
Oct 2017

That is a concept at the center of science.

That would mean belief should be clearly centered on disbelief until demonstrated otherwise. The burden of proof is on the theists, those who make so many various conflicting claims on their various deities.

Atheism is a comfortable alternative, deferring to demonstrable facts under controlled conditions. If someday theists get together -- and stop killing each other -- and offer some testable hypotheses, I'll be all over making the appropriate experiments.

Until then, the null hypothesis is the one which is operative.

longship

(40,416 posts)
9. I am not going to play semantic games here.
Mon Oct 9, 2017, 11:42 PM
Oct 2017

I call myself an atheist because, although I attended church for the first 13 years of my life, I never believed any of it because there simply no evidence outside of the religious texts, which is all hearsay.

My church was Congregational and it was located in the midst of one of the largest Jewish enclaves in Detroit. The synagogue next door to the church shared a parking lot between them. On Christmas Eve, the Rabbi from next door would traditionally give the sermon; one of our pastors would reciprocate at the synagogue on one of their holy days.

So I learned two important things about religion quite early in my life. First, people with different beliefs don't need to kill each other. Second, since there are so many different beliefs, not all of them can be correct, and actually it's more than likely that none of them are correct.

That is very comforting to me, especially as there are still too damned many who believe that murder is justifiable for such beliefs. We'd all be better off either letting it all go, or being more like that pastor and rabbi of my youth.

Act_of_Reparation

(9,116 posts)
12. Belief and knowledge are not the same thing.
Tue Oct 10, 2017, 09:34 AM
Oct 2017

Believing there is no god is not the same as knowing there is no god. Most atheists are also agnostics.

Angry Dragon

(36,693 posts)
15. This is what I am going on
Tue Oct 10, 2017, 12:29 PM
Oct 2017
Definition of atheist
:a person who does not believe in the existence of a god or any gods ne who subscribes to or advocates atheism

Definition of theism
:belief in the existence of a god or gods; specifically :belief in the existence of one God viewed as the creative source of the human race and the world who transcends yet is immanent in the world

Definition of agnostic
1 :a person who holds the view that any ultimate reality (such as God) is unknown and probably unknowable; broadly ne who is not committed to believing in either the existence or the nonexistence of God or a god
2 :a person who is unwilling to commit to an opinion about something

political agnostics

Act_of_Reparation

(9,116 posts)
18. That definition of agnostic is particularly bad.
Tue Oct 10, 2017, 01:13 PM
Oct 2017

Belief/disbelief are binary. You either believe something or you do not; there is no middle ground. While "reserving judgement" might appear to be a softer third option, it is functionally consistent with disbelief.

trotsky

(49,533 posts)
14. Technically, "agnostic" isn't a position right in between theism and atheism.
Tue Oct 10, 2017, 10:35 AM
Oct 2017

It's a term that describes knowledge.

(A)theism describes a belief state.

You can believe in a god, and claim to KNOW it exists - that makes you a gnostic theist.
You can believe in a god, but not claim to know it exists - you're an agnostic theist.
You can NOT believe in a god, and claim to know that gods don't exist - you're a gnostic atheist.
And finally, you can NOT believe in a god, and NOT claim to know they don't exist, and you're an agnostic atheist. (Likely what you are.)

The terms are complementary, not exclusionary.

murielm99

(30,745 posts)
10. I learned that in high school.
Tue Oct 10, 2017, 12:32 AM
Oct 2017

I wonder if they are teaching that now, or if teachers have been intimidated into skipping that part of our history.

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