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MineralMan

(146,324 posts)
Sun Dec 17, 2017, 04:03 PM Dec 2017

Martin Luther, The Reformation and Anti-Semitism

One of the most striking ironies of Christianity is its pervasive and persistent anti-semitism. Even though the man/god it worships was a Jewish man himself, anti-semitism has a long and inglorious history in Christianity. Even the Reformation didn't change that. Martin Luther, himself, wrote a long treatise about the "horrible Jews." You can learn about it at the link below. You certainly won't learn about it at church:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/On_the_Jews_and_Their_Lies

Here are some of the low points of his treatise:

In the treatise, Luther describes Jews as a "base, whoring people, that is, no people of God, and their boast of lineage, circumcision, and law must be accounted as filth."[6] Luther wrote that they are "full of the devil's feces ... which they wallow in like swine,"[7] and the synagogue is an "incorrigible whore and an evil slut".[8]

In the first ten sections of the treatise, Luther expounds, at considerable length, upon his views concerning Jews and Judaism and how these compare to Christians and Christianity. Following the exposition, Section XI of the treatise advises Christians to carry out seven remedial actions. These are

to burn down Jewish synagogues and schools and warn people against them;
to refuse to let Jews own houses among Christians;
for Jewish religious writings to be taken away;
for rabbis to be forbidden to preach;
to offer no protection to Jews on highways;
for usury to be prohibited and for all silver and gold to be removed, put aside for safekeeping, and given back to Jews who truly convert; and
to give young, strong Jews flail, axe, spade, and spindle, and let them earn their bread in the sweat of their brow.
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Martin Luther, The Reformation and Anti-Semitism (Original Post) MineralMan Dec 2017 OP
It wasn't just Martin Luther, either: MineralMan Dec 2017 #1
Didn't man to be redundant Bradshaw3 Dec 2017 #3
Not a problem. I didn't mention Russian Orthodoxy. MineralMan Dec 2017 #5
Such a bitter truth. And there is no good reason for this crazy anti-semitism. Sophia4 Dec 2017 #7
Unfortunately Luther wasn't alone Bradshaw3 Dec 2017 #2
Yes. It's a long, sordid history, indeed. MineralMan Dec 2017 #4
I was thinking about this yesterday. Sophia4 Dec 2017 #6
Thanks. MineralMan Dec 2017 #8
Neither does the Tanakh. Igel Dec 2017 #9
Luther was not attacking the Jews as Semites, guillaumeb Dec 2017 #10
Utter nonsense! MineralMan Dec 2017 #11
What of Voltaire? guillaumeb Dec 2017 #12
This thread is about Martin Luther. MineralMan Dec 2017 #13
I might, or perhaps a thread about anti-Semitism in history. guillaumeb Dec 2017 #14
Nope. I won't participate in thead hijacking. MineralMan Dec 2017 #15
I think it's about broadening the conversation.. whathehell Dec 2017 #16
Much whataboutism happens under the pretense of "broadening the conversation". Act_of_Reparation Dec 2017 #17
Thread hijacking sounds more negative. guillaumeb Dec 2017 #18
You yourself have screamed quite loudly when you think someone does it to your threads. trotsky Dec 2017 #19
And when I do start another thread, guillaumeb Dec 2017 #22
Another of your tired, sad memes. trotsky Dec 2017 #29
Irony is a funny thing. MineralMan Dec 2017 #20
in all fairness, mr g has been knocked for cloning threads. Voltaire2 Dec 2017 #21
Another claim that a very few make here. guillaumeb Dec 2017 #24
See #22 guillaumeb Dec 2017 #23
Yes. n/t. whathehell Dec 2017 #25
And yet DoubleAgentOrange Dec 2017 #26
Christianity has always relied heavily JNelson6563 Dec 2017 #27
As a German, Luther inherited rabid, violent anti-Semitism as a sort of birthright. malchickiwick Dec 2017 #28

Bradshaw3

(7,524 posts)
2. Unfortunately Luther wasn't alone
Sun Dec 17, 2017, 04:10 PM
Dec 2017

Long history by many Christian sects, including the mostly forgotten pogroms of Eastern Europe that required conversion to Russian Orthodoxy:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Jewish_pogroms_in_the_Russian_Empire

 

Sophia4

(3,515 posts)
6. I was thinking about this yesterday.
Sun Dec 17, 2017, 04:12 PM
Dec 2017

The Maccabees saved the concept of one God for humanity after the Greeks invaded Israel, but the Protestant Bible does not contain the story of the Maccabees which is in the apocryphal book of Maccabees.

Here is a link to one version of it:

http://www.sacred-texts.com/bib/apo/ma1001.htm

I grew up as a Methodist. The Aprocrypha was not in the Bible used in our churches, but my father had a copy of a Bible that contained it because my father was a pastor.

Igel

(35,332 posts)
9. Neither does the Tanakh.
Sun Dec 17, 2017, 06:11 PM
Dec 2017

Other than order, they're the same.

In other words, Protestantism may have been anti-Semitic, but they abided by the ruling of the Great Assembly or perhaps rulings as late as the Tannaim. Depends on when you think the Hebrew canon was assembled. Surely most of it was set by the time the Romans destroyed Qumran, given the documents there, but I think Song of Solomon is lacking from the fragments found.

Christianity has had a long and tortured affair with Judaism. Even before the NT canon was formed, there were disputes and debates. If you hold the OT to be holy, how do you justify Sunday observance and Christmas? Esp. when the NT is entirely in a Tanakh-related setting, and "righteousness" is obviously tsedakah; when Paul uses a rabbinic 3-way distinction between "bad, righteous, and good"?

Judaism had the same difficulty in dealing with the heretic Xians and making sure that their belief system didn't make hash out of what the Pharisees bequeathed to the Tannaim. For a long time there was a lot of overlap, and neither side liked it at all. Esp. among communities where the Xians weren't also Jews or half-Jews. What do you do with unclean gentiles who didn't perform the conversion rituals and do the mikveh thing but otherwise are pretty much righteous?

The eventual ruling was "priestly authority", making the Sabbath a fast day but Sunday a day of glory; declaring Quartodeciman observers heretics and pushing Easter and other local observances. But there was always the pull to be faithful to the way the early church would have ordered its doctrine--if it's good for Jesus and the apostles, why not Xians? Anti-Semitism was not just a response to supremacist thought ("Israel is God's people, not gentiles&quot or strange folkways, but also the way to define the boundary between Xianity and papal authority and the texts themselves. If you think of Jews as Christ killers, there's nothing there to admire or respect or think you should do. That means the priests are the unalloyed authority.

Martin Luther, when push came to shove, said "Biblia sola" and then, as he exited the pulpit, muttered, "Eppur il papa!" Of course, he had to say it in Italian because if he used German he'd have given away the truth. And while he was anti-Semitic, he still upheld the Great Assembly. Because if it was good enough for Jesus and the apostles, it was good enough for him.

guillaumeb

(42,641 posts)
10. Luther was not attacking the Jews as Semites,
Sun Dec 17, 2017, 09:34 PM
Dec 2017

he was attacking their theology, and what he saw as their deliberate refusal to convert to Christianity.

guillaumeb

(42,641 posts)
12. What of Voltaire?
Sun Dec 17, 2017, 09:41 PM
Dec 2017

A prominent atheist, and a proud revolutionary, he had some interesting things to say about the Jews.

http://www.nytimes.com/1990/09/30/books/l-voltaire-and-the-jews-590990.html

A brief excerpt:

''You have surpassed all nations in impertinent fables, in bad conduct and in barbarism. You deserve to be punished, for this is your destiny.''

guillaumeb

(42,641 posts)
14. I might, or perhaps a thread about anti-Semitism in history.
Sun Dec 17, 2017, 09:45 PM
Dec 2017

So, no comment about Voltaire? He wrote numerous things about the Jews, few of them good.

trotsky

(49,533 posts)
19. You yourself have screamed quite loudly when you think someone does it to your threads.
Mon Dec 18, 2017, 01:59 PM
Dec 2017

You often tell others to just go start another thread if they veer away from your preferred focus.

Apparently you hold yourself to a different set of standards.

guillaumeb

(42,641 posts)
22. And when I do start another thread,
Mon Dec 18, 2017, 06:43 PM
Dec 2017

many in the choir quite coincidentally point out my tactic in so doing.

trotsky

(49,533 posts)
29. Another of your tired, sad memes.
Tue Dec 19, 2017, 10:16 AM
Dec 2017

For those reading along:

"The choir" = all the people who are wise to guillaumeb's tactics and call him out on it.

MineralMan

(146,324 posts)
20. Irony is a funny thing.
Mon Dec 18, 2017, 02:39 PM
Dec 2017

And then, when people do start a new thread, rather than hijacking one of yours, you complain about that, as well.

How ironic.

Voltaire2

(13,108 posts)
21. in all fairness, mr g has been knocked for cloning threads.
Mon Dec 18, 2017, 05:39 PM
Dec 2017

But generally he does it to his own threads after getting himself into a hole.

 
26. And yet
Tue Dec 19, 2017, 07:09 AM
Dec 2017

Conservatives call us anti-semitic when we say (well-deserved) mean things about Sheldon Adelson or Jared Kushner.

They have no idea what antisemitism is.

JNelson6563

(28,151 posts)
27. Christianity has always relied heavily
Tue Dec 19, 2017, 08:12 AM
Dec 2017

on the power of attacking "other". It is a useful tool in achieving (at least perceived) legitimacy. So human, so unenlightened, so obviously not in any way divine.

But people lap it up and go all in. *sigh*

malchickiwick

(1,474 posts)
28. As a German, Luther inherited rabid, violent anti-Semitism as a sort of birthright.
Tue Dec 19, 2017, 09:21 AM
Dec 2017

The middle ages in Europe saw regular massacres of entire Jewish villages across the various German states, duchies and principalities. It got significantly worse during various crusades, and the Black Death was perhaps the apex of violence.

Don't ignore the fiduciary motivations. Violence and murder against the Jews was often committed as a way to avoid paying debts.

EDIT: To add a for example: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rhineland_massacres

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