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MineralMan

(146,331 posts)
Wed Dec 27, 2017, 01:27 PM Dec 2017

According to St. Paul, Donald Trump is President, because God...

Here's what old St. Paul (formerly Saul, of Tarsus) supposedly wrote to the Romans, as recorded in Romans 13. I've chosen the New International Version to quote here, since it's a little easier to understand than the King James Version for many people:

1Let everyone be subject to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God. 2Consequently, whoever rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves. 3For rulers hold no terror for those who do right, but for those who do wrong. Do you want to be free from fear of the one in authority? Then do what is right and you will be commended. 4For the one in authority is God’s servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for rulers do not bear the sword for no reason. They are God’s servants, agents of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer. 5Therefore, it is necessary to submit to the authorities, not only because of possible punishment but also as a matter of conscience.

6This is also why you pay taxes, for the authorities are God’s servants, who give their full time to governing. 7Give to everyone what you owe them: If you owe taxes, pay taxes; if revenue, then revenue; if respect, then respect; if honor, then honor.


For those who prefer early 17th Century English, here's the King James Version of the same passage:

1Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God. 2Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation. 3For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same: 4For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil. 5Wherefore ye must needs be subject, not only for wrath, but also for conscience sake. 6For for this cause pay ye tribute also: for they are God's ministers, attending continually upon this very thing. 7Render therefore to all their dues: tribute to whom tribute is due; custom to whom custom; fear to whom fear; honour to whom honour.


According to Paul, God establishes all civil authorities, so rebelling against those authorities is the same as rebelling against God's will. That means that we should probably stop criticizing Trump, if we are Christians. Since I'm an atheist, though, apparently I'm permitted to criticize him with no fear of eternal damnation. One more reason...

It's in the Bible, folks. What more can I say?
11 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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According to St. Paul, Donald Trump is President, because God... (Original Post) MineralMan Dec 2017 OP
Paul was a citizen of Rome. Kinda shows, doesn't it? nt Girard442 Dec 2017 #1
Well, the right-wing Christians sure seem to be following MineralMan Dec 2017 #2
There was a tradition of emperor worship in Rome. The Velveteen Ocelot Dec 2017 #4
Still, were it not for Paul, Christianity would never have MineralMan Dec 2017 #6
I'll go there Cartoonist Dec 2017 #3
Ah, yes. God is most certainly a Republican... MineralMan Dec 2017 #5
A very misleading title, but I understand your need to frame it as you did. guillaumeb Dec 2017 #7
I doubt your understanding, Guillaume. MineralMan Dec 2017 #8
I understand. guillaumeb Dec 2017 #9
LOL! Irony is a funny thing. MineralMan Dec 2017 #10
Yes, it is. guillaumeb Dec 2017 #11

The Velveteen Ocelot

(115,854 posts)
4. There was a tradition of emperor worship in Rome.
Wed Dec 27, 2017, 01:41 PM
Dec 2017

Paul (who also seemed to have other issues) might have been reflecting that tradition even as he was furthering proto-Christianity.

MineralMan

(146,331 posts)
6. Still, were it not for Paul, Christianity would never have
Wed Dec 27, 2017, 03:09 PM
Dec 2017

become anything more than a small sect of Judaism that probably would have died out. Paul took it out of the region and to the other side of the Mediterranean, where it could be spread by the Romans after a little tweaking to align it better with Europeans. That was what did the trick. That's why almost half the books in the New Testament have been attributed to Paul, although some are questionable as to their authorship.

Cartoonist

(7,323 posts)
3. I'll go there
Wed Dec 27, 2017, 01:36 PM
Dec 2017

Hitler!

I've noticed that Republicans cling to that verse except when a Democrat is President.

guillaumeb

(42,641 posts)
7. A very misleading title, but I understand your need to frame it as you did.
Wed Dec 27, 2017, 03:53 PM
Dec 2017

Really, I do understand that need, or perceived need.

MineralMan

(146,331 posts)
8. I doubt your understanding, Guillaume.
Wed Dec 27, 2017, 03:54 PM
Dec 2017

You don't know me, so you don't understand me. That's OK, though. Let he who has eyes see.

guillaumeb

(42,641 posts)
9. I understand.
Wed Dec 27, 2017, 04:04 PM
Dec 2017

And others also understand. Amazing how underlying attitudes can permeate and be revealed in writing, is it not?

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