Religion
Related: About this forumDo You Believe in Magic?
As a young fellow, like a lot of young fellows, I saved up and purchased a set of magic tricks from a magazine ad I saw. I admired magicians, who were able to use sleight of hand tricks and misdirection to fool an audience. Sadly, as with the juggling instruction book I also purchased, I did not apply myself seriously to learning how to do those mind-fooling tricks. However, I did learn enough to be able to detect the tricks used by many magicians and figure out how they managed to deceive their audiences.
Later, as I was struggling with a fading belief in deities and such supernatural matters, I saw a parallel to my brief study of magic tricks. I began to see the misdirection and sleight of language that was being used by ministers and preachers to deceive a different sort of audience. Lacking evidence, they shifted their audience's attention away from the real and managed to convince people that the unreal was somehow more real that reality. It was a nifty trick that successfully fooled a sizable percentage of those who saw it.
I was unable to see it, however, and became less an less able to see it as I began to learn more about the physical world I found myself inhabiting. Science attracted my curious mind, and I learned how the scientific method put all theories to the test of fallibility. If a result could not be duplicated by more than one scientist, it failed that test. I liked that idea. Try things out. Demonstrate the validity of what you claim with evidence of the truth of your claim.
Religion could not do that. It simply could not. It said that "faith" was the evidence of things unseen. Nope. I couldn't buy that at all. Evidence can be seen. Evidence can be examined in real ways. "Faith" is evidence of nothing but faith, I determined. And that's a tautology. That something is said in the Bible is not evidence of anything but words written down. Before long, I simply could no longer believe that which had no first-level physical evidence. I was an atheist, I discovered.
Was that a bad thing? I couldn't see that it was. I still had a solid moral and ethical compass that was common to most cultures. The only difference between me and the religious folks around me, really, was belief in deities or a deity. I didn't have that. I couldn't have that. Did that change me? No, not really. Not at all.
I don't believe in magic. I cannot. I can see the tricks being performed, but with investigation, I can understand how they fool the eye and the mind. Nope. Magic is trickery. It's fun to watch, but is not real.
samnsara
(17,625 posts)calikid
(584 posts)The Velveteen Ocelot
(115,783 posts)"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic." If in 1965 someone had showed you an object about the size of a checkbook that was capable of producing weather reports, maps, news articles, doing math, playing games, playing music, sending and receiving messages, buying products, making airline reservations, checking stock quotes, taking and saving photographs, identifying birdcalls, tuning a piano, finding and reviewing nearby restaurants, managing your bank account, and incidentally serving as a telephone, would you have thought it was magic, or some technology that was unimaginably advanced, possibly even alien? I think that anything that seems to be "magic" has an explanation, but that neither proves nor disproves the existence of a deity. Maybe there is a "god" of some sort whose nature has a perfectly rational explanation, but we don't know what that is - yet.
Igel
(35,332 posts)One that involves non-understood natural phenomena. Homing-pigeon sort of stuff. Or the way certain marine predators can sense bio-electric fields, pit vipers "smell" infrared or bees see UV.
We don't call such things "magic", we call them "mysteries" until we understand them.
It belongs here, though, because just such capabilities are usually understood in magic shows under the heading "psychic abilities," how ever these tricks may be actually accomplished.
MineralMan
(146,320 posts)I was studying computer programming, working with integrated circuits and figuring out how all of that could be miniaturized. I had a pocket calculator that could replace my slide rule, already, in 1965. I knew where it all was going, but wasn't sure how soon it would become a reality. I could hardly wait, actually, for such things to be in my hands. I did have to wait, though, but when they were, I had them as soon as I possibly could and set about to help people learn to use those devices better.
The Velveteen Ocelot
(115,783 posts)By 1965 there were already transistor radios and pocket calculators and the rapid development of computer technology and programming. So with a little imagination the transistor radio, the calculator and the telephone could be imagined as a single unit that did a lot of things. But in 1920 nothing like that existed at all except maybe in the minds of some forward-thinking mathematicians. If it had been possible to go back in time to 1920 and show a functioning iPhone to people who were not scientists, there would have been great amazement and consternation. Take it back another few hundred years and you might be accused of witchcraft.
My point is that what might have seemed "magical" - that is, supernatural - at one time eventually becomes explainable. I don't think there is any such thing as a "supernatural" phenomenon - something that defies the laws of science - because everything that actually exists is, by definition, natural. Nothing that is real can be supernatural, but what it can be is unexplainable on the basis of current knowledge. Some occurrences that seem magical or supernatural can be explained by misperception, imagination, hallucination, hoaxes and fantasies. But nothing that exists is supernatural. We just might not understand it yet, but someday we will.
MineralMan
(146,320 posts)However with religious stuff, it's mostly just stories. There's nothing really to observe.
Lordquinton
(7,886 posts)Everything else relies on technology of it's time.
However you'd blow minds with flappy bird.
edhopper
(33,597 posts)is he and his kind made it no longer valid.
Any avid reader of science fiction has read about unimaginable technology capable of almost anything.
So we can accept advanced technology, no matter how advanced, as science, not magic. We may not understand it, but we can see it is not supernatural.
thbobby
(1,474 posts)I love history. I have read much about WW1 and the years leading up to it. When reading contemporary ideas of the time, it becomes obvious that most or all have a biased and self-serving viewpoint. Many of the soldiers (especially the Russians) were illiterate. Getting an objective idea of what caused this war and what those fighting in it believed and experienced requires reading many viewpoints and it is difficult not to let one's own biases color the truth.
That was 100 years ago. The printing press was used and the translations are able to be objectively verified. The bible has been scribed repeatedly, subject to translations that are difficult to verify. And much was done by people with strong biases. In addition, it is difficult to truly understand the commoner's lives and their use of language 2000 years ago.
Using the bible as an objective historic document is problematic at best and probably useless in reality.
Pope George Ringo II
(1,896 posts)Really, that's all I can say about it.
shadowmayor
(1,325 posts)As far as I can tell, each time I lost a tooth as a child - a coin would appear under my pillow where I put my tooth before I fell asleep! Never actually saw the Tooth Fairy mind you, but it seemed to work every time as long as I believed.
randr
(12,412 posts)<iframe width="640" height="360" src="
" frameborder="0" gesture="media" allow="encrypted-media" allowfullscreen></iframe>Lordquinton
(7,886 posts)Still Blue in PDX
(1,999 posts)Iggo
(47,561 posts)AtheistCrusader
(33,982 posts)MineralMan
(146,320 posts)It can be very difficult to spot the illusion.