Religion
Related: About this forumHow the Photographer of a Snake-Handling Pastor Handled the Bite That Killed Him
http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2018/01/27/how-the-photographer-of-a-snake-handling-pastor-handled-the-bite-that-killed-him/
How the Photographer of a Snake-Handling Pastor Handled the Bite That Killed Him
January 27, 2018 by David G. McAfee
Pastor Mack Wolford was a legendary figure in the Pentecostal snake-handling community, but that didnt stop his rattlesnake called Old Yeller from killing him during a church service and photoshoot.
Photographer Lauren Pond, who also happened to be a friend of Wolford, was taking photos of his sermon when he was bitten. He denied treatment until it was too late, because his religion opposes legitimate medical intervention.
All of this occurred several years ago, but the story recently gained traction in the media again because the photographer released a book called Test of Faith: Signs, Serpents, Salvation.
It includes her recollections of these shoots:Lauren Pond began photographing Wolford and his congregation in 2011, overcoming her own fear as she shot rattlesnakes and copperheads being coiled around the arms and necks of worshippers as they reaffirmed their faith in the divine. On 23 May the following year, just before his 44th birthday, Wolford posted this message to his followers on Facebook: Praise the lord and pass the rattlesnakes, brother.
Four days later, Pond followed him deep into the Appalachian hills. She shot several frames at an outdoor service as Wolford held, and then walked on, a timber rattlesnake called Old Yeller he had owned for several years. Gone was the benevolent energy I had felt the previous year, Pond later wrote, and in its place an odd sense of urgency.
As she shot, suddenly an eerie stillness fell over the picnic site. The cause quickly became clear: Wolford had been bitten. Eight hours later, he died, his family and followers having respected his steadfast refusal to send for medical treatment until it was too late so strong was their belief that his fate was solely in Gods hands.
Thats right. Just four days after posting Praise the lord and pass the rattlesnakes, Wolfords parlor trick went awry and he was killed. The fact that he could have been saved, but chose to accept prayers instead of anti-venom, makes it even more clear that this is a crime caused by his religion and nothing else.
Emphasis added.
MineralMan
(146,317 posts)Beakybird
(3,333 posts)So he died of the placebo effect!
Or is it a stock photo?
Never mind.
emulatorloo
(44,131 posts)TexasProgresive
(12,157 posts)This is also from a GOOGLE image search and is not related to the story but at least it is of real venomous snake handling in a church.
Nitram
(22,813 posts)Staph
(6,251 posts)He was married with a daughter. I don't think you can get a Darwin if you have already procreated!
edhopper
(33,587 posts)Nitram
(22,813 posts)struggle4progress
(118,294 posts)MineralMan
(146,317 posts)ignored reality in favor of a misguided belief. Yes, it's sad, because nobody should die from being bitten by a snake. But, he never needed to be bitten by that snake. Even after being bitten, he probably could have avoided dying. But he had faith. Now he's dead.
Faith is no substitute for recognizing reality and acting on that recognition. Faith will not protect anyone from the consequences of stupid behavior. A man is dead. That is sad. What is sadder is that his death was completely avoidable. But, he had faith. He wasn't confused. He was stupid. Was. He is no more.
struggle4progress
(118,294 posts)Stupidity is not a moral failing: it is an infirmity, just as a missing limb is an infirmity
The stupid may require our protection from others or from themselves; or others may require our aid to protect them from the stupid; but the underlying problem seems incurable
Confusion is not always a moral failing because it might be remediated, if the confused person is willing: it seems a symptom of moral failing, when the confused person is unwilling to consider the possibility that there actually is some confusion exists and that it can be dissolved
The question of whether the man is question was stupid or confused, of course, is moot now: he is dead, whether that means he is gone in the sense that a candle flame is gone when the candle is blown out, or whether that means he has gone somewhere else. So we cannot distinguish possibilities carefully here
The real matter of interest, however, concerns our moral responsibilities towards such people, whenever we meet them; and our views of our responsibilities will vary according with our views of the people themselves. If they are stupid, we may have some obligation to protect them from others and others from them; if they are confused, our obligation is instead to make some effort to enlighten them. The obligations are onerous in different ways. Protecting some people from others can require significant time and energy. To shed light into confused minds requires a completely different skill set, including an ability to refrain from calling people stupid --- since people seldom listen to someone who insults them
Voltaire2
(13,061 posts)Admittedly a small sect, but you just declared all of those people "stupid and confused" because of their faith based religious convictions.
I mean, I happen to agree with you, but I am surprised to see you take such a hard stand against religious idiocy.
Well done.
struggle4progress
(118,294 posts)I really do hope that some day I will learn to read
Voltaire2
(13,061 posts)Pope George Ringo II
(1,896 posts)dhol82
(9,353 posts)Lordquinton
(7,886 posts)Interesting perspective.
struggle4progress
(118,294 posts)Pope George Ringo II
(1,896 posts)Is that really any different from having his imaginary friend tell him to snack on Tide pods? Either this is fine and he needs a Darwin award, or it's not fine and we need to protect complete idiots from things like their imaginary friends. At no point do we need to say this is normal behavior, though.
struggle4progress
(118,294 posts)or possession of wild animals
Tennessee Code
39-17-101. Handling snakes so as to endanger life prohibited.
(a) It is an offense for a person to display, exhibit, handle, or use a poisonous or dangerous snake or reptile in a manner that endangers the life or health of any person.
(b) An offense under this section is a Class C misdemeanor.
https://law.justia.com/codes/tennessee/2010/title-39/chapter-17/part-1/39-17-101/
As another example, West Virginia has a Dangerous Wild Animals Act
Freedom-of-religion arguments seem unlikely to prevail if such laws are used against snake-handlers
In October 1948, a three-day snake handling "convention" was held in Durham ... hosted by .. Hartman Bunn .. and ministers and followers came from Virginia, Tennessee, and Kentucky ... At the time, North Carolina Supreme Court cases were pending against Bunn and Benjamin Ralph Massey .. for having earlier violated a city ordinance against the public handling of snakes. The convention went on as planned, but .. arrests were made and .. poisonous snakes were seized. Later .. Bunn .. before the North Carolina Supreme Court .. stated that .. handling snakes was an important part of his religion and that forbidding these actions violated the constitutional freedom of religion. The state attorney general .. argued .. that .. though .. laws could not regulate what people believed, if their religious practices endangered them, the state could regulate those practices. The next year, the North Carolina General Assembly passed a law declaring that the handling of poisonous reptiles was a "public nuisance and criminal offense." Although in North Carolina, as in most states, the handling of poisonous snakes is illegal, the practice still continues in anonymity in some rural areas ...
https://www.ncpedia.org/snake-handling
Kentucky actually forbids snake-handling as a religious practice, and this was unheld:
Kentucky Revised Statutes
Title XL § 437.060.?Use of reptiles in religious services
Any person who displays, handles or uses any kind of reptile in connection with any religious service or gathering shall be fined not less than fifty dollars ($50) nor more than one hundred dollars ($100).
http://codes.findlaw.com/ky/title-xl-crimes-and-punishments/ky-rev-st-sect-437-060.html
The Kentucky statute was challenged in Lawson v. Commonwealth ... The Kentucky court quoted .. an earlier U.S. Supreme Court decision, Jones v. City of Opelika ... "Courts, no more than Constitutions, can intrude into the consciences of men or compel them to believe contrary to their faith or think contrary to their convictions, but courts are competent to adjudge the acts men do under color of a constitutional right, such as that of freedom of speech or of the press or the free exercise of religion and to determine whether the claimed right is limited by other recognized powers, equally precious to mankind. So the mind and spirit of man remain forever free, while his actions rest subject to necessary accommodation to the competing needs of his fellows" ... Using this argument .. the Kentucky court upheld the statute ... in 1942, and the decision has not since been overturned ...
http://yeltsin.tripod.com/law/law.htm
But today's handlers belong to a small secretive cult and so could be difficult to prosecute
Of course, it can be worthwhile to wonder what exactly underlies a person's strange behavior:
Snake Handling Can Be Murder
MAY 30, 2013
... Snake handling was .. part of his ministry ... He came home drunk, beat Darlene, then dragged her to the cage where his snakes were held and forced her hand inside. Not surprisingly, she was bitten ... Glenn forced her to drive around with him ... When they returned home, he forced her hand into the snake cage again. She was bitten a second time ... Glenn continued drinking and .. passed out. Darlene was able .. to call her sister ... She survived, and Glenn Summerford was sentenced to ninety-nine years in prison ...
http://stacygreenauthor.com/archives/2525
Pope George Ringo II
(1,896 posts)Suicide by religion is bad enough by itself, but when you put it in terms of "Making his imaginary friend happy is so important to him that he'll do insanely stupid and dangerous things even if they're illegal" then we enter into a whole new category of wrong which includes things like letting go of the steering wheel and having faith that you won't crash. Never mind honor killings and suicide bombers.
Fantasy-based world views are just not a good thing for the individual. And they're not good for the society either. As you point out, we can't legislate the specific acts of stupidity with too much success because their imaginary friends just tell them that laws aren't important.
struggle4progress
(118,294 posts)Pope George Ringo II
(1,896 posts)Treating the actual disease is the real goal here.
struggle4progress
(118,294 posts)that actually prevents strange people from having strange ideas
Whatever real or imaginary friends they might have, most people would not be overjoyed to learn that anyone nearby made a habit of playing with venomous snakes and would take whatever steps they could to discourage the practice locally
There is a simple reason for this: people normally don't want to be bitten by venomous creatures and normally don't want their families, friends, or neighbors bitten either
Seventy years ago, my current hometown used a common law theory of nuisance to shut down some snake-handlers here. Such an approach will be acceptable to most of the public and will effectively turn most people against the practice
There might be about 7500 poisonous snake-bites in the US each year, about half due to people deliberately engaging with the snake (picking it up, beating it with a broom, &c&c) almost always without any "religious" motivation. Ten or fewer of these cases result in death; and there's probably a case every two or three years involving the death of a "religious" snake-handler
Pope George Ringo II
(1,896 posts)struggle4progress
(118,294 posts)Some are loud, others nearly inaudible; some clear and definite, others perplexing, still others seem mere gibberish
It does not matter whether we call the voices "real" or "imaginary." They are genuine psychological phenomena. Whether "real" or "imaginary," not every apparent "friend" is a true friend, nor is every apparent "enemy" a true enemy. We navigate between those voices, deciding which to consider and exactly how to consider them. Those decisions determine who we become: choosing our past, we chose our present
The important issue is neither "obeying imaginary voices" nor "disobeying imaginary voices" but rather our responsibility (from moment to moment) to choose
Mariana
(14,858 posts)Anyway, if they are prosecuted, they instantly become martyrs. "See how we're being persecuted for our faith? Just like Jesus said would happen! Praise the Lord!"
struggle4progress
(118,294 posts)since then through inflation. But there are other options:
Snake-handlers busted
updated 7/12/2008 12:07:58 PM ET
FRANKFORT, Ky. The pastor of a Kentucky church .. was among 10 people arrested by wildlife officers in a crackdown on the venomous snake trade. More than 100 snakes .. were confiscated .. said Col. Bob Milligan, director of law enforcement for Kentucky Fish and Wildlife ... Coots was charged .. with buying, selling and possessing illegal reptiles ... Undercover officers purchased more than 200 illegal reptiles during the investigation ...
Lordquinton
(7,886 posts)MineralMan
(146,317 posts)handling venomous snakes. Or, he's confused about the idea that an invisible deity will protect him from such venomous snakes. So, he handles venomous snakes. He takes his chances. Now, though, he will no longer handle venomous snakes again. His "confusion" has killed him, either way.
COLGATE4
(14,732 posts)MFM008
(19,816 posts)To sweep out the "cobwebs".............
trixie2
(905 posts)In a large bedroom city sat an old tiny church in the tiny woods. The church had been there since the days of the city being farm land. We lived right by the little church and were friendly with the pastor and his family. They were lovely people who even let the local letter carriers use their little woods to have lunch, even let them order carryout food to the little wood.
One day our mother noticed that the pastor was setting up for the next days services and didn't have any help. She told us kids to run over and help him bring his stuff in. We ran over there and we helped carry in many, many large standing fans. I thought out loud, "I guess the AC is out". He said that no the fans were for blowing the devil out of the building. Okaaaaaaay. Then he asked if we liked snakes and we yelled, "No". He told us to go back home for he had boxes and boxes of snake for his church service.
We ran home and told our mother who then quickly shut the doorwall, as if to make sure the snakes can't get through the screen. We never spoke of it again and we never played in their tiny woods.
Good times!