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MineralMan

(146,317 posts)
Tue Apr 17, 2018, 01:05 PM Apr 2018

On ethical and unethical behavior by religious and non-religious organizations

Several posts in the Religion Group recently have reported the firing of an executive of the American Atheists organization. Apparently, there was evidence of instances of financial and sexual behaviours that were improper by that executive. So, the organization has dismissed that executive, which was the proper and ethical thing to do. Since atheism is sometimes discussed in this group, "some few" members began threads about this firing. Apparently those posters did not understand the essential irony that was exposed.

Sadly, such posts about non-theist organizations were simply used as "what-about" attempts to divert attention from a long list of incidents where religious organizations did not behave in a proper and ethical way. For example, in recent years, one Christian denomination, the Roman Catholic Church, was exposed for institutionalizing extremely unethical treatment of many, many heinous offenders who sexually abused children for many decades. It has been major news for many years, and new evidence is appearing still on a regular basis. That the RCC, the largest denomination of Christianity, hid those offences and simply moved offenders around was the very definition of unethical behavior. In addition, it also was in violation of the teachings of that very religion.

There is no equivalence between a non-religious organization firing someone for misdeeds and a religious organization that hid child sexual abuse around the world for decades, or perhaps for centuries, as an institutional matter. The American Atheists did what all organizations should do, and demonstrated proper and ethical behavior. The Roman Catholic Church did what no organization should do. It behaved unethically as an institution. The RCC is paying dearly for it today. They could have avoided all of that by behaving all along in an ethical way that respected the law. They did not. Sadly, criminal convictions are often impossible, due to statute of limitations laws.

In many ways, the posting of such stories as this American Atheists firing simply illustrates the difference between ethical and non-ethical organizations. There is obvious and telling irony in that, but that seems to go unnoticed by those who post those stories here. That's hardly surprising, of course, but ironic nonetheless.

I'll continue to point out that irony, whenever it is appropriate.

In summation: The American Atheists organization behaved ethically in firing that executive on evidence. The Roman Catholic Church behaved unethically in not taking similar actions hundreds upon its employees hundreds of time over many decades. The two situations are not comparable in any way. The irony is obvious.

7 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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On ethical and unethical behavior by religious and non-religious organizations (Original Post) MineralMan Apr 2018 OP
Funny, I was going to suggest you make an OP out of your comment on another thread. trotsky Apr 2018 #1
After I wrote that reply, it occurred to me that it should be an OP. MineralMan Apr 2018 #2
I would suggest a minor edit to... NeoGreen Apr 2018 #3
If irony were a resource, this group would be a fertile field indeed. guillaumeb Apr 2018 #4
I have no doubt that they fired him within his terms of employment. MineralMan Apr 2018 #5
I highly recommend the movie "Spotlight" thucythucy Apr 2018 #6
This highlights one of the things which is most depressing about religions Pope George Ringo II Apr 2018 #7

MineralMan

(146,317 posts)
2. After I wrote that reply, it occurred to me that it should be an OP.
Tue Apr 17, 2018, 01:10 PM
Apr 2018

So, I expanded on it. Thanks!

NeoGreen

(4,031 posts)
3. I would suggest a minor edit to...
Tue Apr 17, 2018, 01:51 PM
Apr 2018

...the 2nd sentence in the summation:

The 1st "hundreds" seems out of place.

guillaumeb

(42,641 posts)
4. If irony were a resource, this group would be a fertile field indeed.
Tue Apr 17, 2018, 02:08 PM
Apr 2018

And when pointing out the irony, self-awareness is also essential.

So did the American Atheist group behave ethically in firing a person prior to any exercise of due process?

MineralMan

(146,317 posts)
5. I have no doubt that they fired him within his terms of employment.
Tue Apr 17, 2018, 03:02 PM
Apr 2018

Due process is a term that applies only to courts of law. Employment agreements often have different language than our laws.

Based on the limited information available, it appears that American Atheists had evidence enough to fire him under the terms of his employment. Perhaps you've seen an employment agreement, or perhaps not. CEOs of all sorts of organizations are fired summarily by those organizations. Generally, some sort of termination agreement applies. I have no idea what was in his agreement with that organization. Do you, perhaps?

If he thinks he was fired wrongly, he has recourse to the courts or other bodies to challenge it. They fired him for unethical and illegal activities. To do so is an ethical decision.

thucythucy

(8,074 posts)
6. I highly recommend the movie "Spotlight"
Tue Apr 17, 2018, 03:16 PM
Apr 2018

which dramatizes the Boston Globe team that first broke the story of the historic, institutional abuse perpetrated by the Church over decades, if not centuries.

Any institution that operates as a strict, top-down hierarchy is ripe for abuse. An institution that eschews placing women in positions of authority is likewise bound to have problems. Mix in a culture of secrecy--which the celibacy rule encourages, since so many priests end up in "illicit" (even if consensual adult) sexual relationships, and it's difficult to see how abuse wouldn't become rife without an enormous commitment to prevent such abuse.

Throw in the authority vested in priests, bishops, cardinals and popes as representatives of Christ (God) on earth and there you have it.

Of course, so many of our institutions also lend themselves to abuse and the toleration of abuse and the silencing of victims. I feel fortunate to be living in a time and place where such institutions are finally being held to account, even if we've only taken the first steps on what is sure to be a very long road.

Pope George Ringo II

(1,896 posts)
7. This highlights one of the things which is most depressing about religions
Tue Apr 17, 2018, 04:57 PM
Apr 2018

The moral and ethical failure involved in excusing sexual predators is bad enough, but the blindness involved in willfully refusing to identify the difference between enabling sexual predators and firing them is simply incomprehensible. How does somebody do that to themselves and then be proud of it?

I guess at the end of the day, some of us have functioning moral compasses, and some of us are reduced to substituting the random and arbitrary demands of a fictional villain from a fairly plagiarized mythology.

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