of such a medieval, cruel organization.

As a lifelong Catholic, it's deeply offensive, hurtful, and embarrassing to me. Indeed - who would Jesus ostracize?

An out-of-date and incorrect three year old story.

If the same incident happened today, would the outcome be any different?

That has been for centuries, and remains today, Canon Law.

What Sobrinho did was the latter which was rescinded.

Now, why don't you answer my question. What is the purpose of using these people and their human tragedy today, three years later?

And why does it matter?

And you still didn't answer my question: would your church do anything different if the same incident happened today?

My answer to your question is based on the correct answer to the above. Please answer and I'll provide you with it.

Even if they impede the flow of broad brushes.

In this case, you can google the difference quite easily. Once you do your question is answered.

I'll hold my breath on your answer. I already it.

That's how you think your church and its pathetic, hateful leadership get off the hook.

Much like "good" Christians don't believe their god sends people to hell, but rather we "choose" to be apart from god, therefore hell.

I am so glad to have discarded religious belief.

My answer is: "Because your church hasn't changed one damn bit."

Much more florid than I imagined it would be.

Thanks, rug. Stay classy.

I was under the impression that you did. Please correct me if I am wrong.

Thanks, trotsky. Stay classy.

I asked you if the RCC has your financial and logistical support. They do.

Personally, I would be ashamed to support such an organization. You prefer to defend them and lash out at those who speak against it. Classy, indeed.

automatically, with no decision needed from the bishop.

So you're saying we can safely blame the entire Roman Catholic church for this. Sobrinho and the Vatican just confirmed this was the church's rules, which they have no wish to change.

Come on, Catholics, sort yourselves out. That includes you, rug, I believe.

And there's a reason for bringing this up now. Three years later, and you haven't changed your absurd and cruel laws?

Will you step up and say that as far as your concerned, these people are not excommunicated, and that anyone who says they are are being evil?

It is not the walk to Canossa.

The person is held to have been excommunicated from the moment they did the act that canon law thinks is so heinous. No-one has to pass it as a 'sentence'. And it means that, for instance, they can't take communion.

So what's your problem with me blaming this on the entire church, who are sitting there with that piece-of-shit bit of canon law staining all of their reputations?

My objection is exageration. You may call it "that piece-of-shit bit of canon law staining all of their reputations" and I may call that an ignorant opinion, particularly when you decline to say who "all of" they are. Do you have a problem with that?

All Catholics are to blame for this, since you have made it clear the bishop, and the Vatican, had no choice about this.

If there is a significant active movement to get that law changed, then I'd love to hear about it. After 3 years, it ought to have a lot of publicity.

That moves your position from an ignorant one to a bigoted one.

Within the four corners of that statement, "all Catholics", all one billion of them and all Catholics on DU , "are to blame for this".

There is no other way to spin that statement.

Your law, your fault. And I can't see any attempt by you to even say to me that the law is wrong, let alone to tell the Pope that, to get the law changed.

No, this is not 'bigotry'; this is based on the actual facts of the case, and your own insistence that this is not the fault of the bishop or the Vatican.

When are you going to change the law, or leave the group that supports it? Get working. You took the blame on yourself.

And it was you who moved from a discussion of Canon Law (which is entirely a creature of the Vatican) to an accusation against "all Catholics".

Is the Catholic Church actually made up of the members of the church or is it the Vatican. Because you certainly claim each when it serves you best.

In this instance:
if it is the hierarchy--then leave, or denounce them, or do fucking something.
if it is the membership--then you are all fucked up to leave this in Canon law.

As you know, it's both.

The hierarchy makes the rules. They never ask the membership what they think. And the only way to get it to change is to leave. If they have no membership, their rules won't mean fuck all. Unless you agree with the rule.

and that doesn't seem to trouble you at all. You claim that it's not your fault alone, as a member of the church, it's also the Vatican's, because they control Canon Law. Of course, when I had posted that the Vatican had pointed out the excommunication was automatic, and nothing was going to change it, you pointed me to:

just mutely accepting the idiocy and meanness of those who control the organisation. Maybe one day you'll change.

No offense.

It began when the pastor sent me an email after Mass complaining that I was reading the bulletin during his sermon. I emailed him back saying I'd read the Catechism next time.

It escalated during the 2004 election when he wrote an article on the parish blog titled "Is Kerry Really A Catholic?" I posted back, "Was Franco Really a Catholic?"

Before the Bishop of Scranton resigned, in disgrace, the pastor would on occasion play a politically-tinged video message from the bishop instead of a sermon. Whenever that occurred, the six of us got up and left about 4 minutes into it. More emails.

I won't get into what happened each and every time one of my children had First Communion or Confirmation other than to say his attempt to deny them because of my behavior was not supported by Canon Law.

He died suddenly last December at age 61. The new priest seems ok so far.

fellow, aren't you!

(Visits site for first time.)

(Sees people starting a fight over a 3 year old news article.)

(Leaves.)

on the home page, you landed right in the Religion group first off. How interesting.

Stick around though. What we discuss is usually more current.

I always try to find a place where different viewpoints of religion are discussed. And I always go to political websites and judge the entire thing on the contents of the forum where religion is discussed. And there's no better place to discuss religion than a political website!

For such a short post it is loaded with so many kinds of fail.

Julie