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white_wolf

(6,238 posts)
Wed Jun 13, 2012, 08:06 PM Jun 2012

Dalai Lama says humans may need to move beyond religion.

Last edited Wed Jun 13, 2012, 09:10 PM - Edit history (1)

I know he is a Buddhist leader and this forum is mostly related to Christianity, but I thought I'd share this quote from his twitter.

"I am increasingly convinced that the time has come to find a way of thinking about spirituality and ethics beyond religion altogether."

Link: https://twitter.com/DalaiLama/status/212834857208905729

20 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Dalai Lama says humans may need to move beyond religion. (Original Post) white_wolf Jun 2012 OP
I watched a video of the DL giving a speech on this, and I thought he made some good points. nt ZombieHorde Jun 2012 #1
Buddhism isn't technically a religion, as I understand it. And I like the distinction between patrice Jun 2012 #2
It's all illusion! immoderate Jun 2012 #3
"And" "illusion" "is" "all""," . . so don't mistake the word for what the word only refers to . . . patrice Jun 2012 #5
You understand incorrectly Scootaloo Jun 2012 #9
Perhaps I should have said Zen Buddhism, the devotees of which, whom I know personally, don't seem patrice Jun 2012 #13
I'm not sure I understand what he means here, but I think a new vocabulary could be very useful. cbayer Jun 2012 #4
I think it's self-explanatory. laconicsax Jun 2012 #14
sp. Dalai Lama The Wielding Truth Jun 2012 #6
"May"? The Doctor. Jun 2012 #7
Pretty major news coming from a religious leader --> daaron Jun 2012 #8
He has retired from politics. white_wolf Jun 2012 #10
The child chosen has disappeared in China and been replaced by one glinda Jun 2012 #15
Started with Mao, and still going. The Red Energizer Bunny of Doom for the monarchy. daaron Jun 2012 #17
Sounds about right. daaron Jun 2012 #16
A working definition of religion is, "any explanation of the unknown." jerseyjack Jun 2012 #11
"any explanation of the unknown." AlbertCat Jun 2012 #12
That title errs, not humans, rather human's thinking, ... Festivito Jun 2012 #18
He says a lot of things. Some contradict. Some are off base. Some make sense dmallind Jun 2012 #19
"this forum is mostly related to Christianity" 2ndAmForComputers Jun 2012 #20

patrice

(47,992 posts)
2. Buddhism isn't technically a religion, as I understand it. And I like the distinction between
Wed Jun 13, 2012, 08:17 PM
Jun 2012

religion, which is organized and, hence, institutional, and what some people refer to as "spirituality", but what I like to think of as an awareness and cultivation of emergent properties that make a whole greater than the sum of its parts, a.k.a. a living im - mediate (as in un-mediated) Gestalt.

patrice

(47,992 posts)
5. "And" "illusion" "is" "all""," . . so don't mistake the word for what the word only refers to . . .
Wed Jun 13, 2012, 09:02 PM
Jun 2012

any word, for that matter.

 

Scootaloo

(25,699 posts)
9. You understand incorrectly
Wed Jun 13, 2012, 09:56 PM
Jun 2012

What you're describing is "Hollywood Buddhism," which is sort of a nonsense mush of feel-good new-agey stuff put together by people whose closest experience with Buddhism is attending a "Free Tibet" concert once.

Buddhism, as practiced by Buddhists - as opposed to hip westerners - very definitely counts as religion. it's filled with rituals, superstition, religious orders, sects, scripture, and has a pretty bloody history of religious warfare all its own.

What throws a lot of westerners though is that eastern religions like Hinduism, Buddhism, and Shinto aren't mutually exclusive; you can't really be a Jewish Islamo-christian, but you CAN be a Buddhist who reveres Brahma as a Buddha before offering a chicken to the local shaman for intercession with your angry ancestors.

patrice

(47,992 posts)
13. Perhaps I should have said Zen Buddhism, the devotees of which, whom I know personally, don't seem
Thu Jun 14, 2012, 12:29 AM
Jun 2012

at all as you describe, though I'll have to admit that I have not cross examined them about their practices.

 

laconicsax

(14,860 posts)
14. I think it's self-explanatory.
Thu Jun 14, 2012, 02:36 AM
Jun 2012

It also likely ties in with his book on secular ethics and this:

http://www.progressive.org/mag_intv0106

Q: Apart from Buddhism, what are your sources of inspiration?

The Dalai Lama: Human values. When I look at birds and animals, their survival is without rules, without conditions, without organization. But mothers take good care of their offspring. That’s nature. In human beings also, parents—particularly mothers—and children have a special bond. Mother’s milk is a sign of this affection. We are created that way. The child’s survival is entirely dependent on someone else’s affection. So, basically, each individual’s survival or future depends on society. We need these human values. I call these secular ethics, secular beliefs. There’s no relationship with any particular religion. Even without religion, even as nonbelievers, we have the capacity to promote these things.
 

daaron

(763 posts)
8. Pretty major news coming from a religious leader -->
Wed Jun 13, 2012, 09:49 PM
Jun 2012

not to mention deposed monarch. He'd have even more credibility if he gave up his claim to the throne.

white_wolf

(6,238 posts)
10. He has retired from politics.
Wed Jun 13, 2012, 10:16 PM
Jun 2012

He has also said that he may be the last Dalai Lama. He says the role may have outlived its usefulness.

glinda

(14,807 posts)
15. The child chosen has disappeared in China and been replaced by one
Thu Jun 14, 2012, 02:50 AM
Jun 2012

China has chosen. The chain is broken to some degree at least for now....

 

daaron

(763 posts)
17. Started with Mao, and still going. The Red Energizer Bunny of Doom for the monarchy.
Thu Jun 14, 2012, 10:00 AM
Jun 2012

I can't say I'm sorry to see a monarchical lineage broken up, but no doubt Mao's cultural revolution sparked something terrible and tragic and wrong. It wasn't a popular revolution that overthrew the Tibetan monarchy, though - that's the critical difference, and why the Dalai Lama is still so important.

 

daaron

(763 posts)
16. Sounds about right.
Thu Jun 14, 2012, 09:43 AM
Jun 2012

He certainly has a uniquely informed perspective from which to speak. Plus he has this weird way of sounding ... enlightened. No, really. He does - like he's the only grown-up in the room. Jacques Cousteau had a similar gravitas, minus the barely concealed smile.

 

AlbertCat

(17,505 posts)
12. "any explanation of the unknown."
Wed Jun 13, 2012, 11:07 PM
Jun 2012

"any MADE UP explanation of the unknown."

If it's unknown... the made up part is de rigueur. But one CAN make guesses based on what IS known. Religion does not do this.

Festivito

(13,452 posts)
18. That title errs, not humans, rather human's thinking, ...
Thu Jun 14, 2012, 11:01 AM
Jun 2012

or, a way of thinking...

humans thinking about spirituality and ethics

Note: This is not his conviction, rather slow revelation in progress.

I am increasingly convinced that the time has come to find a way of thinking about spirituality and ethics beyond religion altogether.


For example: The metaphor of an internal unseen ligature connecting temporal man to the infinitude of spirituality could be found in a metaphor of resonance instead.

dmallind

(10,437 posts)
19. He says a lot of things. Some contradict. Some are off base. Some make sense
Thu Jun 14, 2012, 11:05 AM
Jun 2012

Pretty much the same as all of us obviously, except his words get more press.

This one on its face is both reasonable and blindingly obvious. Hundreds of miilions if not billions of people already have fully functional and effective ethical systems that operate beyond religion. These systems are generally both more applicable to reality than deontologies and more responsive to a world rapidly developing past the circumstances foreseen by the authors of religious codes. In this then he is absolutely right, but no more insightful than one would be in saying "Slavery - I think it might be a bad idea."

2ndAmForComputers

(3,527 posts)
20. "this forum is mostly related to Christianity"
Fri Jun 15, 2012, 11:31 AM
Jun 2012

Only because of the demographics of the country in which it is located and from which most of its members come.

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