Don't you? Besides, alcohol is part of the liturgy in some churches. In fact, if there's no alcohol, it's "invalid matter," according to the largest denomination of Christianity. Even Jesus is said to have made sure there was plenty of wine at the wedding in Canaan. Nothing wrong with a bit of alcohol, for your stomach's sake, you know, and for your frequent infirmities. (I'd prefer the KJV language, but I thought I'd skip it in this informal setting.)

You may not have been in a typical British or Irish pub. Drunkenness isn't required. Drinking alcohol isn't required. Just have a pasty and a lemon squash if you don't drink.

How simplistic your thinking is on this matter, it seems.

but I also visit churches to listen to their pipe organs and choirs, see the art and architecture, and watch the pageantry of the liturgy. I especially enjoy Orthodox churches of all types, but like the Russian Orthodox Liturgy best, since I can understand the old Slavonic used in it, if I concentrate.

I'm always made to feel welcome, for whatever reason I choose to visit. When prayers are given, I sit silently and respectfully. Do you have a problem with that?

or any other house of worship, I'm not surprised you declared yourself an atheist decades ago.

I on occasion made similar analogies, usually in a bar, drunk. Fortunately, I stopped drinking decades ago. The clarity is remarkable.

Welcome to DU.

Read the threads and you'll know the characters and m.o.'s in no time.

church and religion.

Well, I can't stand either fanatical religious people or fanatical atheists. A pox on ALL of you. Especially the ones too childish to refrain from picking fights over religion in a forum that seeks to make all religious viewpoints welcome.

Is someone an alcoholic if they go to a pub to enjoy music and good company?

The focus of a pub is alcohol, then music and company. There are lots of places to find company. Besides, a pub is not the best place for an alcoholic to frequent.

The bigger point, which MM in his deflective manner is attempting to refute, is that the focus of a church is not music and good company.

Why bring that into the mix anyway? It seems like you were trying to insinuate something.

And if you look at some of the recent the studies done - a couple of which YOU'VE posted, I believe - where they've found benefits of religion, they are precisely that: the social interaction.

Go back to the post that DUer replied to. It's right in there.

I quote: "Besides, a pub is not the best place for an alcoholic to frequent."

Go to 14.

"Is someone an alcoholic if they go to a pub to enjoy music and good company?"

"If you find your god in a bottle." ???

Please explain.

The pubs I have been in, it was not the alcohol that was the focus.

I'm not about to compare bar experiences with you, except to see they are the only places of music, cheer, and fellowship that I have been in that required a liquor license.

and a degree to preach ...........

But you need neither to enter a church, snagogue, mosque or temple.

No cover charge either.

This is not Teetotalers Underground. Most of us are adult enough to drink responsibly. Those who aren't are in no position to be judgmental about this.

I don't know about your old religion (oh wait I do, Romey's tithing has been in the news), but it's entirely optional in every church I know.

It's not technically required, but without paying a full tithe, you can't go to the temple. If you can't go to the temple, you can't get into heaven. It's definitely pay-to-play.

Well, MM may have a point.



Hmmm, no, he doesn't.

then would you list these churches

Read #41.

10. No one will kill you for not drinking Beer.

9. Beer doesn’t tell you how to have sex.

8. Beer has never caused a major war.

7. They don’t force Beer on minors who can’t think for themselves.

6. When you have a Beer, you don’t knock on people’s doors trying to give it away.

5. Nobody’s ever been burned at the stake, hanged, or tortured over his brand of Beer.

4. You don’t have to wait 2,000+ years for a second Beer.

3. There are laws saying Beer labels can’t lie to you.

2. You can prove you have a Beer.

1. If you’ve devoted your life to Beer, there are groups to help you stop.

I'll just leave it at this:

"10. When you go to a bar, you can always pick up a beer."

was like this.

I am chagrined to say I was involved in something like this. Never gloat about beating somebody at chess while doing shots.

would get you in a fight in that bar.

or a sugar cube.

Oh, my bad, that's just his blood.

I don't know if you're bad but your information is. It's always better to know what you intend to mock before attempting it.

Only what is in the chalice, not the bottle, changes.

Therefore, fail.

I understand that. The change only comes when the priest says it does. Well...if you believe that sort of thing, anyhow. It stays wine and bread, as far as I'm concerned, but I'm not a Catholic. Nevertheless, the liquid that gets changed comes from a bottle and contains alcohol. There are some strict standards for the makeup of that liquid, but it's wine all the same. Not wine that patrons would pay for in my pubchurch, of course. Their standards for taste and other qualities are higher, since they have to drink it without the miraculous transformation.

they're always glad you came.

Have a pint of bitter on me!

But we don't call it church. We call it the Sunday Seminar, where no topics are off the table. Nor are the 16 oz Leinenkugel drafts. (I am partial to the IPA and the creamy dark.)

It is a raucous service and, like all such religious events, all are welcome. Many come back, some can't take the heat and do not. Still, after many years, there has yet to be chair throwing or even a defenestration.

Worship in peace, my friend...

me.

The pub or tavern, however, opens up opportunities for fellowship with people you do not know, and that's a good thing, as well. You never know when your next friend will walk through the door.

You can pray in your home, too. But, people seem to like to gather together for religious reasons, for many of the same reasons they attend their local pub or tavern.

attend the morning mass everyday. I was going through a lot of stress. Just that morning mass was pretty helpful to me. I got alot out of it. It's to bad that church today has gotten to involved with politics. I just can't go to church any longer and I think that is one reason I'm so angry at times. I had a friend that had bible study in her home. I really wasn't in to that much. I take the bible has a book written with a bunch of stories. I didn't care for it and stopped going.

The early Christian church was not a formal building but a body of believers meeting to worship and fellowship in someones home.

A church is a body of believers gathering to worship and fellowship. I don't think a bar is an appropriate place to do this.

And talk about a utopian atmosphere, everybody's happy or damn well act like it.