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frogmarch

(12,154 posts) Tue Sep 18, 2012, 03:42 PM Sep 2012

Controversial New Text About Jesus

The Inside Story of a Controversial New Text About Jesus
According to a top religion scholar, this 1,600-year-old text fragment suggests that some early Christians believed Jesus was married—possibly to Mary Magdalene
By Ariel Sabar
Smithsonian.com, September 18, 2012

Harvard researcher Karen King today unveiled an ancient papyrus fragment with the phrase, “Jesus said to them, ‘My wife.’” The text also mentions “Mary,” arguably a reference to Mary Magdalene. The announcement at a religious studies conference in Rome is sure to send shock waves through the Christian world. The Smithsonian Channel will premiere a special documentary about the discovery on September 30 at 8 p.m. ET. And Smithsonianmagazine reporter Ariel Sabar has been covering the story behind the scenes for weeks, tracing King’s steps from when a suspicious e-mail hit her in-box to the nerve-racking moment when she thought the entire presentation would fall apart. Read our exclusive coverage below.

Excerpt:

Harvard Divinity School’s Andover Hall overlooks a quiet street some 15 minutes by foot from the bustle of Harvard Square. A Gothic tower of gray stone rises from its center, its parapet engraved with the icons of Matthew, Mark, Luke and John. I had come to the school, in early September, to see Karen L. King, the Hollis professor of divinity, the oldest endowed chair in the United States and one of the most prestigious perches in religious studies. In two weeks, King was set to announce a discovery apt to send jolts through the world of biblical scholarship—and beyond.

MORE: http://www.smithsonianmag.com/history-archaeology/The-Inside-Story-of-the-Controversial-New-Text-About-Jesus-170177076.html

14 replies

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Controversial New Text About Jesus (Original Post) frogmarch Sep 2012 OP

Expect outrage from the fundies. nt Speck Tater Sep 2012 #1

There is no news here for those already familiar with Gnostic texts. Viva_Daddy Sep 2012 #2

In that era and culture, a man in his 30's was either married or GAY elfin Sep 2012 #3

Or both. okasha Sep 2012 #4

Hee Hee good one nt. elfin Sep 2012 #5

By the fourth century--and even much earlier-- there were stories about Jesus' personal life. Thats my opinion Sep 2012 #6

Do you know what the earliest text talking about his personal life is? Bradical79 Sep 2012 #11

Perhaps the gospel of Thomas, Thats my opinion Sep 2012 #12

More writing about Jesus from 300+ years after he supposedly lived. MineralMan Sep 2012 #7

. struggle4progress Sep 2012 #8

So far this fragment has only been dated by epigraphy, since its provenance is unknown it is still dimbear Sep 2012 #9

For lots more folks that find this suspicious, see PaleoJudaica.com: dimbear Sep 2012 #10

Update: dimbear Sep 2012 #14

A colleague and neighbor of mine has examined the fragment and has concluded that it is a forgery. Thats my opinion Sep 2012 #13

Speck Tater

(10,618 posts)

1. Expect outrage from the fundies. nt

Reply to frogmarch (Original post)

Tue Sep 18, 2012, 03:55 PM

Sep 2012

Viva_Daddy

(785 posts)

2. There is no news here for those already familiar with Gnostic texts.

Reply to frogmarch (Original post)

Tue Sep 18, 2012, 03:58 PM

Sep 2012

elfin

(6,262 posts)

3. In that era and culture, a man in his 30's was either married or GAY

Reply to frogmarch (Original post)

Tue Sep 18, 2012, 04:00 PM

Sep 2012

Take your pick Fundies. Oh wait, you don't deal with real history or facts.

okasha

(11,573 posts)

4. Or both.

Reply to elfin (Reply #3)

Tue Sep 18, 2012, 04:05 PM

Sep 2012

N/T

elfin

(6,262 posts)

5. Hee Hee good one nt.

Reply to okasha (Reply #4)

Tue Sep 18, 2012, 04:19 PM

Sep 2012

Thats my opinion

(2,001 posts)

6. By the fourth century--and even much earlier-- there were stories about Jesus' personal life.

Reply to frogmarch (Original post)

Tue Sep 18, 2012, 07:03 PM

Sep 2012

This is one of the most common. It is entirely possible that Jesus was married. I would like to think that he was, being "fully human." His overt sexuality gets him out of the frothy mystical world and into the flesh and blood one.

Bradical79

(4,490 posts)

11. Do you know what the earliest text talking about his personal life is?

Reply to Thats my opinion (Reply #6)

Mon Sep 24, 2012, 12:19 PM

Sep 2012

Thats my opinion

(2,001 posts)

12. Perhaps the gospel of Thomas,

Reply to Bradical79 (Reply #11)

Mon Sep 24, 2012, 12:41 PM

Sep 2012

which is really a collection of Jesus' sayings. Papias makes references early in the 2nd century. There are stories about the child Jesus which are fanciful and not historic.
The early stories about Mary Magdalene predate the fragment under consideration by a couple of centuries.

All great heroes have stories which come in their wake.

MineralMan

(146,317 posts)

7. More writing about Jesus from 300+ years after he supposedly lived.

Reply to frogmarch (Original post)

Tue Sep 18, 2012, 08:12 PM

Sep 2012

I don't believe any of it. People have not changed in the ensuing years. They're still writing what they think Jesus was about. There are no contemporaneous accounts of the man we call Jesus. Even the name is incorrect. There was no person named "Jesus" living in that place at that time.

From the early church to today, it is all second-hand, third-hand, fourth-hand and more accounts. Nothing that is written is without change from what may have occurred.

Feh!

ETA: Oh, crap. I wrote something in the Religion Group. Never mind.

struggle4progress

(118,295 posts)

8. .

Reply to frogmarch (Original post)

Thu Sep 20, 2012, 08:51 PM

Sep 2012

hattip to n2doc: http://www.democraticunderground.com/10021386066

dimbear

(6,271 posts)

9. So far this fragment has only been dated by epigraphy, since its provenance is unknown it is still

Reply to frogmarch (Original post)

Thu Sep 20, 2012, 09:51 PM

Sep 2012

iffy to say the least.

dimbear

(6,271 posts)

10. For lots more folks that find this suspicious, see PaleoJudaica.com:

Reply to dimbear (Reply #9)

Sat Sep 22, 2012, 06:06 PM

Sep 2012

http://paleojudaica.blogspot.com/

You too can watch the usual vultures descend...........

For one respected authority that isn't as suspicious as she usually is, see
April's blog Forbidden Gospels.

*I meant to add a bit of aleatory advice: when you see a small unprovenanced item with an outsize political importance, bet against it constantly. You will win money in the long run.

** Lots more at the RogueClassicist

dimbear

(6,271 posts)

14. Update:

Reply to dimbear (Reply #10)

Wed Sep 26, 2012, 07:51 PM

Sep 2012

http://alinsuciu.com/2012/09/26/on-the-so-called-gospel-of-jesuss-wife-some-preliminary-thoughts-by-hugo-lundhaug-and-alin-suciu/

The religious community has made great strides since the days when texts came in uncritically. Folks don't want to repeat the errors that let in Timothy and Titus. Tradition has cemented them in place now, tho a new gathering of New Testament writings would exclude them.

Thats my opinion

(2,001 posts)

13. A colleague and neighbor of mine has examined the fragment and has concluded that it is a forgery.

Reply to frogmarch (Original post)

Tue Sep 25, 2012, 05:24 PM

Sep 2012

Last edited Tue Sep 25, 2012, 06:06 PM - Edit history (1)

As an internationally known Coptic scholar, she cites 10 reasons for her conclusion, after having seen only photographys of the material..
Here are just four:
1-The handwriting cannot come from the 4th century, since some of the letters have no parallels in other 4th century writings.
2-Given customs of the day, Jesus would never have referred to a woman as "my wife."
3-This square piece is obviously a scrap on its own, and not a fragment of a larger text.
4-To this date there is no record of who owned the material or where it came from.

The other reasons are more esoteric and require some considerable knowledge of the Coptic language and how manuscript evidence is deduced from scraps or fragments.

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