Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member Latest Breaking News General Discussion The DU Lounge All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search
29 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
From Atheism to Islam: The Light of Al-Fatihah (Original Post) rug Oct 2012 OP
do all her men friends and family wear that head wrap or just women? nt msongs Oct 2012 #1
. rug Oct 2012 #2
So, was that a wise choice? 2ndAmForComputers Oct 2012 #3
Just don't change your mind again Silent3 Oct 2012 #4
...and my post 3 has been answered. 2ndAmForComputers Oct 2012 #5
Yep. That'll do it. humblebum Oct 2012 #6
"From atheism" my ass Silent3 Oct 2012 #7
"She wasn't a real atheist." rug Oct 2012 #8
She even qualified the way she used the word herself Silent3 Oct 2012 #9
Uh huh. rug Oct 2012 #10
Please do tell why I'd need to pay extra attention to abiding by those words... Silent3 Oct 2012 #11
Bear those words in mind if you are inclined to invoke NTS whenever someone points out how insane rug Oct 2012 #12
This is not even the same thing at all. cleanhippie Oct 2012 #13
Thank you for posting that quote... Silent3 Oct 2012 #15
Actually he is refuting her past self-identification. rug Oct 2012 #16
That is just not the case, as evidenced by her own words. cleanhippie Oct 2012 #17
Not entirely. rug Oct 2012 #18
But the bigger point here AlbertCat Oct 2012 #19
Next time try posting to the person you're talking about. rug Oct 2012 #21
You'll do better. AlbertCat Oct 2012 #22
People who have the integrity of their positions tend to speak directly to those they criticize. rug Oct 2012 #23
People who have the integrity of their positions tend to speak directly to those they criticize. AlbertCat Oct 2012 #24
People with integrity don't start personal flamewars. rug Oct 2012 #25
I will bear those words in mind, but if some crazy person says... Silent3 Oct 2012 #14
her words: Mosby Oct 2012 #26
You left out her earlier words: rug Oct 2012 #27
she seems a little confused Mosby Oct 2012 #28
I think it's insulting not to take a person at her word. rug Oct 2012 #29
The light of Al-Fajita??? AlbertCat Oct 2012 #20

Silent3

(15,217 posts)
7. "From atheism" my ass
Mon Oct 15, 2012, 11:50 PM
Oct 2012

She even admits, in her somewhat ditzy way, that she wasn't a real atheist, she simply used "atheist" as a very inapt label for times that she was "between faiths", desperately wanting something religious to believe in and searching for it.

Silent3

(15,217 posts)
9. She even qualified the way she used the word herself
Tue Oct 16, 2012, 03:18 PM
Oct 2012

This is hardly a "no true Scottsman" thing, she was using the word "atheism" well outside any reasonable meaning for the word. This is very different from seeing someone behave badly and refusing to admit that person is a "true" Christian -- even though, apparently, you're eager to conflate that sort of thing with my post.

Silent3

(15,217 posts)
11. Please do tell why I'd need to pay extra attention to abiding by those words...
Tue Oct 16, 2012, 03:33 PM
Oct 2012

...instead of just being passive aggressive. What situations do you have in mind where that's oh so important, but isn't being done enough?

 

rug

(82,333 posts)
12. Bear those words in mind if you are inclined to invoke NTS whenever someone points out how insane
Tue Oct 16, 2012, 03:35 PM
Oct 2012

some people are who claim to be Christian or Muslim.

Is that direct enough?

cleanhippie

(19,705 posts)
13. This is not even the same thing at all.
Tue Oct 16, 2012, 04:24 PM
Oct 2012

No one is claiming she wasn't an atheist because of her behavior, but because of her belief.

Saying she wasn't a "true" atheist because she did have belief is hardly the same as the NTS fallacy. Any claim otherwise is absurd.

I guess that is not really atheist if you are searching for God, but whatever


That pretty much ends the debate right there.

Silent3

(15,217 posts)
15. Thank you for posting that quote...
Tue Oct 16, 2012, 04:37 PM
Oct 2012

...and hitting the point a bit more directly than I had so far.

 

rug

(82,333 posts)
16. Actually he is refuting her past self-identification.
Tue Oct 16, 2012, 05:24 PM
Oct 2012

At that point in her life she had no belief in a god. End of story.

cleanhippie

(19,705 posts)
17. That is just not the case, as evidenced by her own words.
Tue Oct 16, 2012, 07:44 PM
Oct 2012

While she identified as an atheist, she admits she didn't really even understand what that word meant, AND her own words...

I guess that is not really atheist if you are searching for God, but whatever


show that she did, in fact, believe.


But the bigger point here is the attempt to falsely equivocate this with the NTS fallacy. This is, in no way, shape, or form, the same as a christian who disavows another chrtistian because of their behavior. Can we agree on THAT, at least?
 

rug

(82,333 posts)
18. Not entirely.
Tue Oct 16, 2012, 09:05 PM
Oct 2012

Many Christian, Muslims and others do not fully understand what that means. This woman was searching, questioning and rejecting various beliefs until she settled on Islam. As far as atheism goes, to arrive at that conclusion, one must understand what the concept of god is in order to assert he or she rejects it. That examination itself is a a species of a search, whether one goes looking for it or has it thrust upon him or her.

 

AlbertCat

(17,505 posts)
19. But the bigger point here
Wed Oct 17, 2012, 01:35 PM
Oct 2012

...is Rug trying to present someone who supposedly didn't believe in god or gods (atheism) turning to Islam after thinking it all thru.

This is obviously not the case, since she never lost her belief that there is some kind of god, and therefore was never an atheist. "Atheist" doesn't mean "I have a few doubts".

Next time Rug, post something about Evelyn Waugh. You'll do better.

 

rug

(82,333 posts)
23. People who have the integrity of their positions tend to speak directly to those they criticize.
Wed Oct 17, 2012, 05:16 PM
Oct 2012

QED

 

AlbertCat

(17,505 posts)
24. People who have the integrity of their positions tend to speak directly to those they criticize.
Wed Oct 17, 2012, 08:07 PM
Oct 2012

Did you make that up all by yourself?

Besides, I did speak to you. I even called you by name.

People of integrity don't make up fake "controversies".

QED

Silent3

(15,217 posts)
14. I will bear those words in mind, but if some crazy person says...
Tue Oct 16, 2012, 04:36 PM
Oct 2012

...for example, that they are Christian, and doesn't subsequently backtrack by saying something like, "By Christian, I mean I'm not Hindu or Shinto, not that I'm a follower of Christ" -- then I'll still take it that this person is most likely a Christian, whether or not that means a "good" Christian or an exemplary one.

No doubt there are a number of "real" former atheists -- people who actually didn't at one point believe in a deity, rather than people bizarrely appropriating the label "atheist" for something very different -- who have converted to Islam. I'm hardly trying to deny that such a conversion can happen, nor am I trying to say "no true atheist" would ever convert to Islam.

The person depicted in the OP, however, simply is not a good example of such a conversion.

Mosby

(16,317 posts)
26. her words:
Wed Oct 24, 2012, 05:30 PM
Oct 2012

Anyways, it wasn’t the best relationship. He was kind of a dungy! But it is what it is. Anyways, then I got pregnant and dropped out. And I gave my baby up for adoption and blamed God for how horrible my life was. So I turned my back on Him, and what can you say?

So then I healed a little bit I guess in myself and I started searching.

That's not atheism rug.

Reminds me of a qoute from the book Suicide of Reason by Lee Harris: "today in america we want religions that make us feel good, and flee from those that make demands from us". (Page 243)

Religion a la carte, is what this is.

Mosby

(16,317 posts)
28. she seems a little confused
Wed Oct 24, 2012, 08:19 PM
Oct 2012

She also said this:

So I went back to that sort of Atheism, but still searching. I guess that is not really atheist if you are searching for God, but whatever.


I find her attitude a little insulting and also surprising that she would publicly talk about her mother in the way she did given that she is muslim.

Latest Discussions»Issue Forums»Religion»From Atheism to Islam: Th...