How do we address horrors like this? I think the answer lies in our culture. But changing out culture is a slow process and given the events of the last few years, even if we can begin to change our culture, we will live through more of these atrocities. Is that our best option? To try to change our violent culture and accept that until we succeed, this continues?

as Obama frequently did in his handjob for the religious right, is definitely not the answer.

As many believers (including quite a few on DU) like to remind us, this is a "Christian nation" or at least one in which a vast majority believe in a god of some kind.

In fact, that is one specific aspect of our culture that is quite a bit different than other nations where this type of violence is more rare.

I am not suggesting a connection, but I think it is worth being part of the discussion.

Baal was not on the job, and did nothing when the crisis came. You'll find it in I Kings Chapter 18.

Not long ago, you repudiated all of that as outdated and tired theology, and proclaimed "god" to be no more than the driving energy of the universe. So which is it? Just whatever version will best support your preconceived notions at the moment?

and promote your religion. Have you no decency, sir?

Perhaps if the ones claiming to be men of God is showing God as something other than compassion, making God to be revengeful. By Huckabee's standards maybe it is revenge for the hate taught in houses of God, teaching everyone to hate others, telling tales they must know is not true but do not seek truth before telling their listeners. Ministers only have about an hour a week to teach the love Jesus had for everyone and they prefer to talk politics and hate. This is very wrong, in times we need to seek comfort in our house of God we hear comments from those like Huckabee wanting to blame a tragedy on everything but the truth. Many Americans are gun hungry and thing guns fixes everything, the result is innocent people dying. We overlook mental illness and the need to treat those in need, just buy bigger guns and ones which can shoot fast. These are not hunters of game, just a means to kill others.

frosty wind made moan
earth stood hard as iron
water like a stone
snow had fallen
snow on snow on snow
in the bleak midwinter
long ago

heaven cannot hold him
nor can earth sustain
heaven and earth shall flee away
when he comes to reign
in the bleak midwinter
a stable place sufficed ...

Personent hodie
voces puerulae
laudantes iucunde
qui nobis est natus
summo Deo datus
et de virgineo ventre procreatus

In mundo nascitur
pannis involvitur
praesepi ponitur
stabulo brutorum,
rector supernorum.
perdidit spolia princeps infernorum ...

children's cries resound today, singing merrily: supreme and destined, he is born to us today of a virgin
born into the world, swaddled in a manger, the stable animals directly above him, he defeats the prince of hell

"Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world, and the soul of soulless conditions. It is the opium of the people"

People are oppressed by a powerful lobby that has politicians running scared of any gun control laws; and the gunman was heartless. And so most people turn to religion to find comfort; a wish that an even greater power does understand our suffering.

But, as you say, the solutions to the problems lie in us. On that, I think theists and atheists can agree.

Absolutely.

"...are just different sides of the same despicable coin."

Do you know who said that? Your daughter did.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1218&pid=59379

So this is OUR fault for not being faithful enough for your god?

If you really believe that you are every bit as despicable as Huckabee.

The fault is ours because we have permitted to create a society steeped in violence; where we allow thousands of people to be gunned down every year. We even celebrate the violence of war, do not object to children's video games featuring murder and vdestruction, do not demand the control of firearms etc. And the church has been just as remiss as the rest of society.

Aren't we supposed to cheer for God as he punishes all of those horrible sinners?

Several video games are based on the teachings in the Bible, 'Left Behind' is particularly violent.

Murder and destruction? Check. Total obliteration of two cities, including those innocent children who lived in them, because god wanted to punish some of the residents. How many thousands did your god kill that day? It offended me before I was even old enough to know what it meant to be morally offended.

Your religion needs to look inward at how it has helped shape and foster the violence in our society. And recognize you really have no moral standing to be lecturing others on how we should behave.

that it is just a result of your word salad and that you aren't really as gifted in writing as you seem to think you are. I mean, what does "we have permitted to create" actually mean. You either are active in the process ("create&quot or you allow it ("permit&quot . There is absolutely no actor that actually did the creating in your sentence.

So I tend to apply that same standard to everything else that comes out of your keyboard.

But, come on, dude, you either need to admit that you aren't as skilled as you think at writing or you need to own the fact that you said it was "human unfaithfulness" that caused what happened. You can't run away from that if you are going to stick to the "I'm a wordsmith" line. The fact that people don't have faith is what caused the violence. You're fucking Huckabee. Deal with what you have written like an adult would (past events indicate you won't).

There is no way that can be misconstrued.

He's stated in multiple forms, on multiple occasions, that atheists cannot be moral without a religious ethical foundation, either in themselves or in the society in which they reside.

With that kind of raw bigotry, naturally one thinks that all violence is the result of turning away from god. He can't even acknowledge that as you noted, he's doing the exact same thing as Huckabee. Despicable.

And hope everyone forgets about this one.

for the next time you whine about people saying you are a religious bigot.

"Human unfaithfulness" caused this shooting? Fuck you.

in a lot of places in the bible(s). Any being that would allow anything like this to happen is definitely not worthy of praise or worship.
Saying that God mourns with us is laughable. Another feeble attempt at reading the mind of this god, which seems to be par for the course with a lot of the faithful.
"Where was God" is the correct question, you just don't like the answer.

Colour me surprised.

Have no use or need or desire for anything they or their ilk have to say.

When called on it, they either apologize or point fingers, saying, "that's THEM, not me." Followed by an appeal for donations.

But, if it is a self-delete to try and erase any evidence of pulling a Huckabee, I'm going to past the OP here: