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cleanhippie

(19,705 posts)
Thu Jan 19, 2012, 11:08 AM Jan 2012

Voluntary 'De-Baptism' Rising in Europe

Sunday evening youth mass in Saint-Germain-des-Pres is overflowing with parishioners. People stand in aisles or sit cross-legged in corners of the cavernous, sixth century Paris church. Father Benoist de Sinety, parish priest at Saint Germain for the past three years, says he has always had the good fortune of seeing crowds of young people seeking their bearings or rediscovering faith. But he knows it is not the same everywhere.

Churches in France and elsewhere in Europe have been battling falling numbers, a trend evident not only in the empty pews, but in the sharp fall in baptisms. But "de-baptisms", a church's deletion of one's name from the official baptismal registry at a parishioner's request, are a recent phenomenon, and they are taking place in both Protestant and Catholic communities.

There are no official statistics, but experts and activists count the numbers of those seeking de-baptism in the tens of thousands, and websites offering informal "de-baptism" certificates have mushroomed. Anne Morelli, who heads a center for religion and secularity studies at the Free University of Brussels, says de-baptisms, both official and unofficial, increased in 2011, particularly in the Netherlands, Germany, Belgium and Austria. The numbers, she said, reflect public anger at the church pedophilia scandals.

Terry Sanderson, head of the National Secular Society in Britain, agrees. "I think what sparked the real desire of people to leave the church, particularly the Catholic church, were the huge child-abuse scandals that revolted so many people [that] they no longer wanted to be associated with it," he said. "That's when people started to leave in large numbers."

http://www.voanews.com/english/news/religion/Voluntary-De-Baptism-Rising-in-Europe-137592823.html



8 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Voluntary 'De-Baptism' Rising in Europe (Original Post) cleanhippie Jan 2012 OP
People choosing to leave bigoted organizations is good thing in my opinion. nt ZombieHorde Jan 2012 #1
Couldn't agree more. I have asked, and not gotten a reply, as to why some of our own continue to cleanhippie Jan 2012 #2
It is not an easy thing to do. Goblinmonger Jan 2012 #3
Seems a bit silly really dmallind Jan 2012 #4
Catholic Church says they have X million members. Goblinmonger Jan 2012 #5
But surely you think that, which is my point dmallind Jan 2012 #6
I'm certainly with you. Goblinmonger Jan 2012 #7
Don't know, it seems a pretty good piece of non-violent protest to me justiceischeap Jan 2012 #8

cleanhippie

(19,705 posts)
2. Couldn't agree more. I have asked, and not gotten a reply, as to why some of our own continue to
Thu Jan 19, 2012, 11:21 AM
Jan 2012

attend their respective churches...


I guess denial is a tough obstacle to overcome.

 

Goblinmonger

(22,340 posts)
3. It is not an easy thing to do.
Thu Jan 19, 2012, 11:37 AM
Jan 2012

I am considering going through the process to get taken off the official count of Catholics, but you need to request from the parish in which you were baptized and need to include specifics about why you are no longer Catholic. They don't let go easily. Plus I'm guessing you get put on a "go visit this poor lost soul" list.

dmallind

(10,437 posts)
4. Seems a bit silly really
Thu Jan 19, 2012, 02:23 PM
Jan 2012

Unless you think the original baptism had any real meaning or power, how can you imagine the reversal does? And if you DO think so, how are you leaving religious faith behind. Yes I know parish registers will still show you as X denomination but who the hell cares?

If this were the only way to divert tax dollars (some countries like Germany IIRC apportion aid to religions based on number of adherents) elsewhere then sure - but pretty sure that registration is taken from secular documents not ecclesiastic rites.

 

Goblinmonger

(22,340 posts)
5. Catholic Church says they have X million members.
Thu Jan 19, 2012, 03:04 PM
Jan 2012

They count me as one. I wish they would stop that. There are problem a good sum of people they count as members for the purpose of power that are no longer Catholic.

Plus it's a ceremony or formal statement of disbelief that might mean something to some people. Why piss on that? I don't go around saying that Baptism is meaningless because there is no god to people when they have their kid baptized.

dmallind

(10,437 posts)
6. But surely you think that, which is my point
Thu Jan 19, 2012, 03:33 PM
Jan 2012
I don't go around saying that Baptism is meaningless because there is no god to people when they have their kid baptized.


I don't think calling something " a bit silly" is "pissing" on it either, but surely a debaptism can mean no more than a baptism? I suspect we agree entirely on how useless and empty ritual the latter is.

Catholics claim to have X million members not from a detailed roll-up of every parish register but from percentages applied to populations. They are not going to claim 285,000,000 or whatever it is one day then 284,999,999 after a debaptism ceremony in Terrre Haute happens are they,

I have no issue with such rituals being available for those who want them - and obviously wouldn't expect it to matter if I had an issue. Can't see how anybody can have an issue with me thinking the idea a bit silly though.
 

Goblinmonger

(22,340 posts)
7. I'm certainly with you.
Thu Jan 19, 2012, 03:48 PM
Jan 2012

My Baptism as a youth didn't mean shit. I realize that.

But certainly you have to understand that if I said that Baptism was ridiculous on DU, I would certainly be alerted on (not saying you should, btw).

If significant numbers of people that no longer believed in Catholicism de-baptized themselves (by removing their names not the ritual necessarily), I think the RCC would have to take notice. Maybe not. They're a pretty big juggernaut.

justiceischeap

(14,040 posts)
8. Don't know, it seems a pretty good piece of non-violent protest to me
Fri Jan 20, 2012, 08:15 AM
Jan 2012

Take beliefs out of the equation entirely and look at it from a political stand-point. They're demonstrating the RCC best they can by having their names removed from roles. Letting the RCC they will no longer tolerate their policies when it comes to the child abuse scandals. I won't begrudge the folks getting de-baptized for that.

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