Religion
Related: About this forumVoluntary 'De-Baptism' Rising in Europe
Sunday evening youth mass in Saint-Germain-des-Pres is overflowing with parishioners. People stand in aisles or sit cross-legged in corners of the cavernous, sixth century Paris church. Father Benoist de Sinety, parish priest at Saint Germain for the past three years, says he has always had the good fortune of seeing crowds of young people seeking their bearings or rediscovering faith. But he knows it is not the same everywhere.
Churches in France and elsewhere in Europe have been battling falling numbers, a trend evident not only in the empty pews, but in the sharp fall in baptisms. But "de-baptisms", a church's deletion of one's name from the official baptismal registry at a parishioner's request, are a recent phenomenon, and they are taking place in both Protestant and Catholic communities.
There are no official statistics, but experts and activists count the numbers of those seeking de-baptism in the tens of thousands, and websites offering informal "de-baptism" certificates have mushroomed. Anne Morelli, who heads a center for religion and secularity studies at the Free University of Brussels, says de-baptisms, both official and unofficial, increased in 2011, particularly in the Netherlands, Germany, Belgium and Austria. The numbers, she said, reflect public anger at the church pedophilia scandals.
Terry Sanderson, head of the National Secular Society in Britain, agrees. "I think what sparked the real desire of people to leave the church, particularly the Catholic church, were the huge child-abuse scandals that revolted so many people [that] they no longer wanted to be associated with it," he said. "That's when people started to leave in large numbers."
http://www.voanews.com/english/news/religion/Voluntary-De-Baptism-Rising-in-Europe-137592823.html
ZombieHorde
(29,047 posts)cleanhippie
(19,705 posts)attend their respective churches...
I guess denial is a tough obstacle to overcome.
Goblinmonger
(22,340 posts)I am considering going through the process to get taken off the official count of Catholics, but you need to request from the parish in which you were baptized and need to include specifics about why you are no longer Catholic. They don't let go easily. Plus I'm guessing you get put on a "go visit this poor lost soul" list.
dmallind
(10,437 posts)Unless you think the original baptism had any real meaning or power, how can you imagine the reversal does? And if you DO think so, how are you leaving religious faith behind. Yes I know parish registers will still show you as X denomination but who the hell cares?
If this were the only way to divert tax dollars (some countries like Germany IIRC apportion aid to religions based on number of adherents) elsewhere then sure - but pretty sure that registration is taken from secular documents not ecclesiastic rites.
Goblinmonger
(22,340 posts)They count me as one. I wish they would stop that. There are problem a good sum of people they count as members for the purpose of power that are no longer Catholic.
Plus it's a ceremony or formal statement of disbelief that might mean something to some people. Why piss on that? I don't go around saying that Baptism is meaningless because there is no god to people when they have their kid baptized.
dmallind
(10,437 posts)I don't go around saying that Baptism is meaningless because there is no god to people when they have their kid baptized.
I don't think calling something " a bit silly" is "pissing" on it either, but surely a debaptism can mean no more than a baptism? I suspect we agree entirely on how useless and empty ritual the latter is.
Catholics claim to have X million members not from a detailed roll-up of every parish register but from percentages applied to populations. They are not going to claim 285,000,000 or whatever it is one day then 284,999,999 after a debaptism ceremony in Terrre Haute happens are they,
I have no issue with such rituals being available for those who want them - and obviously wouldn't expect it to matter if I had an issue. Can't see how anybody can have an issue with me thinking the idea a bit silly though.
Goblinmonger
(22,340 posts)My Baptism as a youth didn't mean shit. I realize that.
But certainly you have to understand that if I said that Baptism was ridiculous on DU, I would certainly be alerted on (not saying you should, btw).
If significant numbers of people that no longer believed in Catholicism de-baptized themselves (by removing their names not the ritual necessarily), I think the RCC would have to take notice. Maybe not. They're a pretty big juggernaut.
justiceischeap
(14,040 posts)Take beliefs out of the equation entirely and look at it from a political stand-point. They're demonstrating the RCC best they can by having their names removed from roles. Letting the RCC they will no longer tolerate their policies when it comes to the child abuse scandals. I won't begrudge the folks getting de-baptized for that.