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hrmjustin

(71,265 posts)
Tue Jun 4, 2013, 09:42 PM Jun 2013

Do you find peace when you pray?

I have to say when I pray I find strength in it. If I quiet my soul I can feel the presence of the Almighty with me. I feel God's abundant grace when I pray for others and when I pray for forgiveness. I find joy and peace when I sit in the presence of my God.

Do you find peace when you pray?

34 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Do you find peace when you pray? (Original Post) hrmjustin Jun 2013 OP
well, I find faith, clarity, and the flow of being in the present zazen Jun 2013 #1
Personally, I find inherent weakness in prayer. RoccoR5955 Jun 2013 #2
so we can put you down as arely staircase Jun 2013 #4
So you believe prayer has some real-world effect? goldent Jun 2013 #7
Templeton foundation study found a slightly harmful effect Warren Stupidity Jun 2013 #13
Actually, the study showed no result Fortinbras Armstrong Jun 2013 #14
Yes, that's what Warren just stated. A slightly harmful effect. cleanhippie Jun 2013 #15
Glad to see you back my friend! hrmjustin Jun 2013 #20
I never left. Just been lurking. cleanhippie Jun 2013 #22
Well I am glad to see you. hrmjustin Jun 2013 #23
You too! cleanhippie Jun 2013 #24
Which part of "within the margin of error" do you find difficult to understand? Fortinbras Armstrong Jun 2013 #21
Only your contradictory statements are difficult to understand. cleanhippie Jun 2013 #25
Obviously, you have not had the Introduction to Statistics class Fortinbras Armstrong Jun 2013 #30
Obviously, you have not had the Basic Vocabulary and Comprehension class. cleanhippie Jun 2013 #32
Post removed Post removed Jun 2013 #33
Caught yet again in another of your contradictions, you resort to insult and personal attack. cleanhippie Jun 2013 #34
thus "slight". Warren Stupidity Jun 2013 #19
yes arely staircase Jun 2013 #3
What is prayer? cbayer Jun 2013 #5
i think it can be different things for different people, obviously arely staircase Jun 2013 #6
If I'm in church for something EvilAL Jun 2013 #12
Usually, not always. n/t Adsos Letter Jun 2013 #8
Yes, somtimes when I pray goldent Jun 2013 #9
Rarely. rug Jun 2013 #10
Sounds like Mindfulness. Adsos Letter Jun 2013 #18
I'll look into it. rug Jun 2013 #27
Interesting. I think my wife does something like that. Adsos Letter Jun 2013 #28
The version of Mindfulness that I experienced during the Kaiser study Adsos Letter Jun 2013 #29
You know, even with prayer aside, those are good principles to folllow in life. rug Jun 2013 #31
At night I like to reflect on the day. I am very thankful for my life, my love, my health.... Rowdyboy Jun 2013 #11
Sometimes yes, sometimes no Fortinbras Armstrong Jun 2013 #16
Prayer is just another form of meditation. cleanhippie Jun 2013 #17
i do`t pray madrchsod Jun 2013 #26

zazen

(2,978 posts)
1. well, I find faith, clarity, and the flow of being in the present
Tue Jun 4, 2013, 09:50 PM
Jun 2013

I know prayer, from a nondualist perspective, entails making infinite reality/consciousness/one whathaveyou into an object of consciousness, but it really helps me to form a conversation with that higher power. Nothing gets me back into the present, which is the only way I can be aligned with God's will, more than brutally honest prayer.

It's such a blessing to be able to talk about faith on this forum. I know the atheist types are getting what they need in other DU groups and that's fine, but to me, faith and commitment to social justice are deeply intertwined. Faith is the ground out of which I'm ever going to be of service to anyone, and the only way I can remain conscious of injustice without going insane, so it's wonderful to be able to find like-minded souls on DU. Thanks for posting.

 

RoccoR5955

(12,471 posts)
2. Personally, I find inherent weakness in prayer.
Tue Jun 4, 2013, 09:55 PM
Jun 2013

To me, it is nothing more than the belief that some mythological character will come and save something, or someone.

Personally, if I do something that is wrong, I try to look at it, see what I did, study it, and its outcomes, and try not to do the same thing the next time. This gives me peace

I do not pray for others, because it has been my experience that when people pray for me, or anyone close to me, bad things happen to me or them. I always ask that people refrain from praying for me for this reason.

To me, it is more realistic to face the fact that life has its ups and downs, and we must deal with them in a logical way, without believing in mythology. Thought, examination, and logic gets me through the day, much better than prayer ever did.

goldent

(1,582 posts)
7. So you believe prayer has some real-world effect?
Tue Jun 4, 2013, 11:28 PM
Jun 2013

Maybe if you could get people to pray for harm to come to you, then instead something good will happen.

 

Warren Stupidity

(48,181 posts)
13. Templeton foundation study found a slightly harmful effect
Wed Jun 5, 2013, 07:10 AM
Jun 2013

Of intercessionary prayer if the object of the prayer knew they were being prayed for.

Fortinbras Armstrong

(4,473 posts)
14. Actually, the study showed no result
Wed Jun 5, 2013, 12:32 PM
Jun 2013

Yes, there was a slight preference for harmful effect, but it was within the margin of error for the study.

cleanhippie

(19,705 posts)
15. Yes, that's what Warren just stated. A slightly harmful effect.
Wed Jun 5, 2013, 12:42 PM
Jun 2013

What would seem to be the take-away from the study is that prayer simply has no positive effect whatsoever; it just doesn't work. And actually DOING something will achieve far better results. YMMV.

cleanhippie

(19,705 posts)
25. Only your contradictory statements are difficult to understand.
Wed Jun 5, 2013, 02:19 PM
Jun 2013

First...

Actually, the study showed no result

Followed by ...
Yes, there was a slight preference for harmful effect


All in the very same post.

First you contradicted, then you confirmed Warren's assertion. Many would see that as a passive-aggressive taunt. I see it as pure fail.


Fortinbras Armstrong

(4,473 posts)
30. Obviously, you have not had the Introduction to Statistics class
Thu Jun 6, 2013, 07:58 AM
Jun 2013

The study, which can be found at http://www.templeton.org/pdfs/press_releases/060407STEP_paper.pdf the difference between positive and negative effects of prayer was 1%, with the negative being the slightly greater. However, the margin of error was 1.02%. Thus, the actual difference was within the margin of error.

Now do you understand?

cleanhippie

(19,705 posts)
32. Obviously, you have not had the Basic Vocabulary and Comprehension class.
Thu Jun 6, 2013, 11:12 AM
Jun 2013

Definition of CONTRADICTION
1: act or an instance of contradicting

2 a : a proposition, statement, or phrase that asserts or implies both the truth and falsity of something
b : a statement or phrase whose parts contradict each other
<a round square is a contradiction in terms>

3 a : logical incongruity
b : a situation in which inherent factors, actions, or propositions are inconsistent or contrary to one another


Lets review your post.


First...
Actually, the study showed no result

Followed by ...
Yes, there was a slight preference for harmful effect

Response to cleanhippie (Reply #32)

cleanhippie

(19,705 posts)
34. Caught yet again in another of your contradictions, you resort to insult and personal attack.
Fri Jun 7, 2013, 11:38 AM
Jun 2013

You really should see someone about your anger issues.

arely staircase

(12,482 posts)
3. yes
Tue Jun 4, 2013, 10:09 PM
Jun 2013

And I also find peace when I say the creeds in church because I not only reaffirm my faith but I feel a connection to generations of christians stretching back not only to the fourth century but the apostles themselves. Same as when I take Holy Communion.

cbayer

(146,218 posts)
5. What is prayer?
Tue Jun 4, 2013, 10:21 PM
Jun 2013

For me, it is most likely an opportunity for inner reflection.

When I do find myself in situations where prayer is included, I inevitably take the opportunity to reflect, and that is generally a positive experience for me.

I never feel that I am speaking to something that is listening and I never ask for anything.

Now, blowing out birthday candles is a whole other matter.

arely staircase

(12,482 posts)
6. i think it can be different things for different people, obviously
Tue Jun 4, 2013, 10:49 PM
Jun 2013

But the inner reflection you speak of is probably the common denominator, IMHO. For instance, in my church we recite a prayer of confession from our prayer book asking forgiveness for things we have done and things we have left undone. For me it primarily serves as a moment in which I reflect upon my actions and resolve to be a better person. There are other members of my particular denomination here, including the OP who may experience that differently, but we accept those differences and are bound, not separated by the experience.

EvilAL

(1,437 posts)
12. If I'm in church for something
Wed Jun 5, 2013, 06:10 AM
Jun 2013

and the priest/minister etc., says 'let us pray', I sing a Slayer song in my head.

goldent

(1,582 posts)
9. Yes, somtimes when I pray
Tue Jun 4, 2013, 11:33 PM
Jun 2013

I feel apart from the world and have feelings much like you describe. It allows my mind to work in a different way. This is not always the case - the place and time have to be right.

 

rug

(82,333 posts)
10. Rarely.
Tue Jun 4, 2013, 11:40 PM
Jun 2013

I am usually distracted or distract myself. But when I do, it's when I can recognize the presence of something more than myself. The best prayer I experience is silence and slowly realizing all that is around me and that I am simply part of it.

Adsos Letter

(19,459 posts)
18. Sounds like Mindfulness.
Wed Jun 5, 2013, 12:56 PM
Jun 2013

It is proving to be effective in some cases of PTSD as well.

I took part in a Kaiser health study which utilized it.

Adsos Letter

(19,459 posts)
28. Interesting. I think my wife does something like that.
Wed Jun 5, 2013, 03:57 PM
Jun 2013

And, on an only very, very marginally related note: I want my next house to have an interior like that one in the heading on the page you linked to.


In fact...if I knock out a couple of walls before she gets home, I might be able to produce a fait accompli in terms of proceeding with it in our current home. If I call it a monastery I may even be able to get a tax break to assuage the financial pain.

Adsos Letter

(19,459 posts)
29. The version of Mindfulness that I experienced during the Kaiser study
Wed Jun 5, 2013, 11:19 PM
Jun 2013

was without a specifically religious component, and was part of a larger study which evaluated Acceptance and Commitment Therapy (ACT) as a treatment for PTSD

Mindfulness in Psychology

Several definitions of mindfulness have been used in modern psychology. According to various prominent psychological definitions, Mindfulness refers to a psychological quality that involves

bringing one’s complete attention to the present experience on a moment-to-moment basis,[8]

or involves

paying attention in a particular way: on purpose, in the present moment, and non-judgmentally (emphasis added),[8]

or involves

a kind of non-elaborative, non-judgmental, present-centered awareness in which each thought, feeling, or sensation that arises in the attentional field is acknowledged and accepted as it is.[9]

Bishop, Lau, and colleagues (2004)[10] offered a two-component model of mindfulness:

The first component [of mindfulness] involves the self-regulation of attention so that it is maintained on immediate experience, thereby allowing for increased recognition of mental events in the present moment. The second component involves adopting a particular orientation toward one’s experiences in the present moment, an orientation that is characterized by curiosity, openness, and acceptance.[10]:232

In this two-component model, self-regulated attention (the first component) involves conscious awareness of one's current thoughts, feelings, and surroundings, which can result in metacognitive skills for controlling concentration.[11] Orientation to experience (the second component) involves accepting one's mindstream, maintaining open and curious attitudes, and thinking in alternative categories (developing upon Ellen Langer's research on decision-making). Training in mindfulness and mindfulness-based practices, oftentimes as part of a quiet meditation session, results[citation needed] in the development of a Beginner's mind, or, looking at experiences as if for the first time.

Practicing mindfulness can help people to begin to recognise their habitual patterns of mind, which have developed out of awareness over time [12] and this allows practitioners to respond in new rather than habitual ways to their life.[12]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mindfulness_(psychology)


Acceptance and Commitment Therapy (ACT)

ACT is developed within a pragmatic philosophy called functional contextualism. ACT is based on relational frame theory (RFT), a comprehensive theory of language and cognition that is an offshoot of behavior analysis. ACT differs from traditional cognitive behavioral therapy (CBT) in that rather than trying to teach people to better control their thoughts, feelings, sensations, memories and other private events, ACT teaches them to "just notice," accept, and embrace their private events, especially previously unwanted ones. ACT helps the individual get in contact with a transcendent sense of self known as "self-as-context"—the you that is always there observing and experiencing and yet distinct from one's thoughts, feelings, sensations, and memories. ACT aims to help the individual clarify their personal values and to take action on them, bringing more vitality and meaning to their life in the process, increasing their psychological flexibility.[3]

While Western psychology has typically operated under the "healthy normality" assumption which states that by their nature, humans are psychologically healthy, ACT assumes, rather, that psychological processes of a normal human mind are often destructive.[6] The core conception of ACT is that psychological suffering is usually caused by experiential avoidance, cognitive entanglement, and resulting psychological rigidity that leads to a failure to take needed behavioral steps in accord with core values. As a simple way to summarize the model, ACT views the core of many problems to be due to the concepts represented in the acronym, FEAR:

Fusion with your thoughts
Evaluation of experience
Avoidance of your experience
Reason-giving for your behavior

And the healthy alternative is to ACT:

Accept your reactions and be present
Choose a valued direction
Take action

Core Principles:

ACT commonly employs six core principles to help clients develop psychological flexibility:[6]

Cognitive defusion: Learning methods to reduce the tendency to reify thoughts, images, emotions, and memories
Acceptance: Allowing thoughts to come and go without struggling with them.
Contact with the present moment: Awareness of the here and now, experienced with openness, interest, and receptiveness.
Observing the self: Accessing a transcendent sense of self, a continuity of consciousness which is unchanging.
Values: Discovering what is most important to one's true self.[7]
Committed action: Setting goals according to values and carrying them out responsibly.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acceptance_and_commitment_therapy


The Six Core Principles provided some very useful tools for living with PTSD.

Rowdyboy

(22,057 posts)
11. At night I like to reflect on the day. I am very thankful for my life, my love, my health....
Wed Jun 5, 2013, 01:04 AM
Jun 2013

Call it meditation, call it prayer, I don't care. I believe in a power greater than I am, certainly, though I don't pretend to understand it (I'm an Episopalian, I don't have to). I'm very lucky. I also wish for an easing of pain and help for anyone suffering from hunger, oppression or fear. I hope that those suffering might somehow find comfort.

Do I think it actually works? I don't know. I know it doesn't hurt and I think it makes me a better person because for a moment I focus on people other than myself and my circle who are hurting and who (once in a while) I may be able to help. I also sometimes work at a local food kitchen, donate food to the pantry, and pick up trash on the highway. It's not particularly holy but it helps make my corner of the world a little better. Its not much but its all I can do at present.

So, yes, I guess you could say I find peace in my life.

madrchsod

(58,162 posts)
26. i do`t pray
Wed Jun 5, 2013, 02:35 PM
Jun 2013

i put my faith in the people around me who have saved me and that is where i find my peace.

i know my spirit live on after i am gone.
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