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SecularMotion

(7,981 posts)
Sun Jun 16, 2013, 08:01 AM Jun 2013

Catholic Church Keeps a Secret 2nd Set of Records

(Newser) – For centuries, the Catholic Church has had two sets of books—one for routine matters, the other containing records of controversial matters ranging from clandestine weddings performed by priests to clergy alcohol abuse. That second set of records, the first mention of which appeared in the 1700s, has been kept secret from nearly everyone, with only bishops and their inner circle having access to the materials. (In 1954, a scholar called for safes to house the files that could handle "attacks by drills, sledge hammers, wedges, and mechanical tools.&quot But the US probe into sex abuse is finally opening up the files, and many are due for release within months.

http://www.newser.com/story/168592/catholic-church-keeps-a-secret-2nd-set-of-records.html?utm_source=syn&utm_medium=goognews&utm_campaign=chan3_feed
31 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Catholic Church Keeps a Secret 2nd Set of Records (Original Post) SecularMotion Jun 2013 OP
Great potential for genealogical research as well Xipe Totec Jun 2013 #1
I'm surprised that the church has admitted to having these records. LuvNewcastle Jun 2013 #2
Canon 489 SecularMotion Jun 2013 #3
Published globally thirty years ago. rug Jun 2013 #5
The Vatican had an exhibit on this "secret" last year. rug Jun 2013 #4
Wow...they showed 100 documents in that exhibit skepticscott Jun 2013 #8
About as much as you are. rug Jun 2013 #9
Ooooohhh..more ESP? skepticscott Jun 2013 #13
You simply make it all too easy, scottie. rug Jun 2013 #15
Sorry about your failed alert. rug Jun 2013 #10
Keep trying, no matter how lame skepticscott Jun 2013 #11
No of course it wasn't scottie. rug Jun 2013 #12
Post removed Post removed Jun 2013 #14
You have a habit of calling people you disagree with deluded. rug Jun 2013 #16
Vatican loses fight to keep sex files secret SecularMotion Jun 2013 #6
That's the Los Angeles Archdiocese, not the Vatican. rug Jun 2013 #17
The Vatican's reponse SecularMotion Jun 2013 #18
So it is but those are not the Vatican's "secret files". rug Jun 2013 #19
I didn't write the headline. SecularMotion Jun 2013 #20
Tony? rug Jun 2013 #21
The linked article is pretty straightforward and factual. SecularMotion Jun 2013 #22
He smears himself. rug Jun 2013 #23
If you are disputing that records kept by the LA Archdiocese are not "Vatican files" SecularMotion Jun 2013 #24
I am disputing your source. rug Jun 2013 #30
It would be helpful if No Vested Interest Jun 2013 #26
Both the OP and post #6 are current news in 2013 SecularMotion Jun 2013 #27
My point is to not waste my time reading or even pulling up No Vested Interest Jun 2013 #28
Sounds like a matter you should take up with the Admins SecularMotion Jun 2013 #29
The records for sexual abuse alone are probably in a huge warehouse with 10 floors SummerSnow Jun 2013 #7
It is a standard practice for criminal enterprises to keep 2 sets of books. Dawson Leery Jun 2013 #25
Why? Laochtine Jun 2013 #31

Xipe Totec

(43,890 posts)
1. Great potential for genealogical research as well
Sun Jun 16, 2013, 08:26 AM
Jun 2013

They should release some of the documents; at least those over a century old.

LuvNewcastle

(16,847 posts)
2. I'm surprised that the church has admitted to having these records.
Sun Jun 16, 2013, 08:30 AM
Jun 2013

I'm twice as shocked that they're allowing outsiders to read them. The article isn't clear about where the records are kept or if there are copies. Will investigators be allowed into the Vatican to peruse the records or does each diocese or archdiocese have a copy?

 

SecularMotion

(7,981 posts)
3. Canon 489
Sun Jun 16, 2013, 08:50 AM
Jun 2013
The explanation lies in centuries of Catholic Church history and is a tale involving secret betrothals, scandal, even a murder or two. Since the time of the Enlightenment, the Catholic Church has maintained two sets of records: one for the mundane and a second "secret archive" for matters of a sensitive nature. The cache — known as sub secreto files, Canon 489 files, confidential files or C-files — was to be kept under lock and key, only for the eyes of the bishop and his trusted few.

After the files became known to prosecutors and plaintiff's lawyers, the American justice system has pried open the doors to an archive long kept sealed. Thousands of additional pages are set to become public in coming months, as more than a dozen Catholic orders — Salesians, Claretians, Vincentians and others — prepare to bare their own secrets pursuant to agreements with victims. L.A. County Superior Court Judge Emilie Elias could set the date for their release at a hearing Tuesday.

The earliest mention of the secret archives in church history dates to the 1700s, in an edict on marriage issued by Pope Benedict XIV. The archives were to bear witness to "marriages of conscience" — unions that may be banned under civil law or otherwise scandalous, but celebrated by a priest in secrecy.

In the 20th century, when church law regulating the archives were written, Canon 489 prescribed that there was to be "a safe or cabinet, completely closed and locked, which cannot be removed" to which only the bishop would hold the key.

http://articles.latimes.com/2013/may/27/local/la-me-church-secret-files-20130528
 

skepticscott

(13,029 posts)
8. Wow...they showed 100 documents in that exhibit
Sun Jun 16, 2013, 10:44 AM
Jun 2013

Bet that covered everything they've been hiding for centuries. We all know how open and forthcoming the RCC is about their sordid past.

 

skepticscott

(13,029 posts)
13. Ooooohhh..more ESP?
Sun Jun 16, 2013, 02:33 PM
Jun 2013

Trying to psychoanalyze me by long distance? Oh, yes...I confess!! It's all true!!





Not sure if you could be any more lame, pathetic or divorced from reality, but you never cease to amaze.

 

rug

(82,333 posts)
10. Sorry about your failed alert.
Sun Jun 16, 2013, 01:10 PM
Jun 2013

"Another personal attack from this long time troll"

Oh, the irony.

 

skepticscott

(13,029 posts)
11. Keep trying, no matter how lame
Sun Jun 16, 2013, 02:29 PM
Jun 2013

It wasn't my alert, ruggie...I'm just as happy to let your bilge stay out there in public so that everyone can see how you respond when you're exposed for what you are. Point the finger somewhere else if you need the comfort.

 

rug

(82,333 posts)
12. No of course it wasn't scottie.
Sun Jun 16, 2013, 02:32 PM
Jun 2013

Far be it from me to post that you're a liar.

I'm just as happy to let your bilge stay out there in public so that everyone can see how you respond when you're exposed for what you are.


Thank you for underscoring the irony of your, excuse me, someone else's alert.

Response to rug (Reply #12)

 

SecularMotion

(7,981 posts)
6. Vatican loses fight to keep sex files secret
Sun Jun 16, 2013, 09:42 AM
Jun 2013
After six years of American court appeals by the Archdiocese of Los Angeles to keep 30,000 pages of internal, sealed files of priesthood sex crimes out of public scrutiny, the State Supreme Court recently ordered their release, and the documents became public for the first time. They make for startling reading, soul-jarring and shocking, an incontrovertible record of brutal and heartless rapes committed by 122 Roman Catholic priests who presented themselves to the world as the earthly agents of God. These files are a remarkable archive of criminal behaviour condoned by the Holy See, and are disturbing to read. Ray Boucher, the lead attorney for plaintiffs, said that what is revealed in the files is ‘chilling’, and ‘the irony in all of this’, he added, ‘is that in their vain attempts to protect the image of the church, they’ve tarnished it beyond repair’. Upon reading the unsealed documents, an anonymous Vatican official said that the Los Angeles Catholic priesthood ‘left a wake of devastation that is hard to comprehend’.

As a direct result of the release of the documents, and in a move unprecedented in the American Catholic Church, Los Angeles Archbishop Jose Gomez announced that he had relieved his predecessor, Cardinal Roger M. Mahony, of all public duties over his serious mishandling of clergy sex abuse of children over the previous decades. Archbishop Gomez also announced that Auxiliary Bishop Thomas J. Curry, who worked with Cardinal Mahony to conceal child sex abusers from police, had resigned his post as a regional bishop in Santa Barbara, California. In a letter addressed to ‘My brothers and sisters in Christ’, Archbishop Gomez wrote; ‘I find these files to be brutal and painful reading. The behavior described in these files is terribly sad and evil’. Such is the nature of the Catholic priesthood the world over.

http://www.vatileaks.com/_blog/Vati_Leaks/post/Vatican_loses_fight_to_keep_sex_files_secret/
 

SecularMotion

(7,981 posts)
18. The Vatican's reponse
Sun Jun 16, 2013, 02:51 PM
Jun 2013
Abuse victims had insisted that the Archdiocese of Los Angeles release the records as part of a settlement in 2007, which provided $660 million to 508 victims. The Vatican’s response to intense media coverage about decades of paedophilic crimes in the Archdiocese of Los Angeles was simply to say that the accusations were nothing more than ‘petty gossip of the moment’ (Cardinal Angelo Sodano, April 2010, at Easter Mass in St. Peter’s Square), but the records of the Catholic Church now released reveal something entirely different.
 

SecularMotion

(7,981 posts)
20. I didn't write the headline.
Sun Jun 16, 2013, 03:02 PM
Jun 2013

You'll have to take that up with the author of the article, but I suspect the Vatican has full knowledge of the secret records kept by the Archdiocese of Los Angeles.

 

rug

(82,333 posts)
21. Tony?
Sun Jun 16, 2013, 03:06 PM
Jun 2013
About Vati Leaks

VATI LEAKS is a site dedicated to publishing unknown and suppressed information that has been hidden from the people by the Vatican hierarchs in an attempt to conceal the truth about its past.

Tony Bushby

After achieving the necessary academic qualifications, Tony Bushby became a self-employed architectural draftsman early in his life, and later established a magazine publishing business that involved 20 years of research, writing and the publishing of a series of colour magazines primarily for the Australian and New Zealand markets. Some of his titles were; Relieving Arthritis; The Renovators Guidebook; Glimpses of Life Beyond Death, some ‘Collector Editions’ motoring magazines, an immigrant’s handbook, and other general topics. Tony has also had some of his controversial articles published in NEXUS, a renowned international magazine, some of them being, ‘The Forged Origins of Christianity’, ‘Ancient Cities Under the Sands of Giza’, The Criminal History of the Papacy, ‘Celestial Prophecies and the Great Pyramid’, and Shambhala, the Valley of the Immortals.

With strong spiritual beliefs and an interest in metaphysical subjects, Tony developed a long and on-going relationship with many associations and societies throughout the world. He has been given access to several private libraries and, in one instance he actually lived for some time in an archival library that housed a collection of monastic documents more than 1000 years old. An elderly lady in London kindly offered him access to her vast private collection of ancient Bibles (763 in total) and other rare religious texts, and Tony was then able to identify the differences in the wording between old Bibles and newer versions. The development of his series of published books involved him in 30 years of full-time research and a substantial personal investment. Being fiercely tenacious, he was able to peel back the layers of ignorance, deception, superstition, and fear that surrounded the creation of particularly the Christian Gospels and the Vatican’s centuries of brutal enforcement of unsupported ‘truths’ that emanate from them.

Tony travelled extensively through Egypt, the Middle East, England, Wales, Scotland, USA, France, Germany, Belgium, Italy, Australia and New Zealand, and synchronicities allowed opportunities to come to him during this period. For example, an official written ‘Introduction’ signed by an Australian Prime Minister opened doors overseas for him with the trustees of a large European museum subsequently allowing him exclusive access to rare biblical manuscripts in their archival library. While living in Cairo, Tony spent time researching age-old papyri scrolls in the Rare Manuscripts Room in Egypt’s Alexandrian Library where he was provided with a translator to assist him in deciphering a rare collection of ancient sacred Temple texts at least 4000 years old. He was also privileged to explore subterranean chambers and sculptured temples under the sands of Giza that are denied to the general public and around that time, he was shown a series of top-secret photographs taken under the Giza Plateau in 1935 that would require a total re-assessment of world history if they were ever released to the public.


That site is as credible as the headline.
 

SecularMotion

(7,981 posts)
22. The linked article is pretty straightforward and factual.
Sun Jun 16, 2013, 03:22 PM
Jun 2013

Do you dispute any of the facts provided? Why are you attempting to smear the author and the site?

 

rug

(82,333 posts)
23. He smears himself.
Sun Jun 16, 2013, 03:26 PM
Jun 2013
He was also privileged to explore subterranean chambers and sculptured temples under the sands of Giza that are denied to the general public and around that time, he was shown a series of top-secret photographs taken under the Giza Plateau in 1935 that would require a total re-assessment of world history if they were ever released to the public.


That wouldn't even fly in Creative Speculation.

And I already disputed the facts in the article.
 

SecularMotion

(7,981 posts)
24. If you are disputing that records kept by the LA Archdiocese are not "Vatican files"
Sun Jun 16, 2013, 03:37 PM
Jun 2013

it's a minor and irrelevant point. In reality, records of all Catholic churches are known of and owned by the Vatican.

 

rug

(82,333 posts)
30. I am disputing your source.
Sun Jun 16, 2013, 06:39 PM
Jun 2013

Would you like me to post something from World News Daily so we can discuss the facts of the article?

No Vested Interest

(5,167 posts)
26. It would be helpful if
Sun Jun 16, 2013, 05:23 PM
Jun 2013

the commenter referred to the year of publication in the header.
This is old news, and therefore, a waste of time for many.
For those for whom the article's subject is new material, the date would also be useful.

 

SecularMotion

(7,981 posts)
27. Both the OP and post #6 are current news in 2013
Sun Jun 16, 2013, 05:50 PM
Jun 2013

The OP is dated May 2013 and speaks to the court setting a release date for the records and post #6, dated February 2013, speaks more specifically of the contents of the records and pending release.

Both dates are clearly marked at the linked articles, if you had bothered to read them.

No Vested Interest

(5,167 posts)
28. My point is to not waste my time reading or even pulling up
Sun Jun 16, 2013, 05:59 PM
Jun 2013

that of which I'm already aware.
Have to move quickly through all DU presents, let alone the rest of the internet

 

SecularMotion

(7,981 posts)
29. Sounds like a matter you should take up with the Admins
Sun Jun 16, 2013, 06:15 PM
Jun 2013

or you could stick to LBN where the news stories are more strictly regulated.

We have more leeway here in discussing religious matters. There are no restrictions on the age of material, in fact many posts here speak to stories that date back two thousand years, but I'm sure that's old news to you.

Dawson Leery

(19,348 posts)
25. It is a standard practice for criminal enterprises to keep 2 sets of books.
Sun Jun 16, 2013, 04:12 PM
Jun 2013

Remember that nonsense which Emperor Constantine made up at the Council of Nicea. He made himself an authoritarian cult of heretics intended to give all political power to Rome under the guise of Christianity.

Laochtine

(394 posts)
31. Why?
Sun Jun 16, 2013, 06:49 PM
Jun 2013

Would any sane parent let their kids near this church? For the life of me
How can people keep feeding this monster.

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