When you're raised that way, you do what you've been programmed to do.

Who is anyone else to judge their motivations?

fear and ignorance. Teaching people they will go to hell for eternity if they deliberately skip Mass before they have a chance to go to Confession is just plain evil, but that's what I was taught in the three different Catholic schools I attended.

I can't think of one person I know among my family and friends who was also raised Catholic who continues to practice the religion. We are among the many I mentioned. Maybe not YOUR many, but I wasn't referring to YOUR many.

it certainly makes no sense to stay affiliated with an institution that you have had this kind of experience with.

I think there are as many reasons for attending or not attending as there attendees and non-attendees.

Not sure what "my many" is. I know a wide variety of people who attend services and who do not. It's really hard to generalize why they do or don't.

This statement

And I'm not going to his house to *sincerely* try and figure out why he is such a jerk.

You will have your answer. Again, it requires a sincere effort, something you deride others for not doing while refusing to do it yourself.

"The whole exercise is lame and juvenile, imo."

"...there is nothing even close to sincerity in what he is doing. "

But he knows his audience and they will lap it up.

Lame and juvenile.

I'm sorry, I did not know it was your house.

How rude of him.

you might go in there and start poking sticks at the animals while laughing your head off.

Those two things would be quite different.

I'm not opposed to criticism, but he did not go there to "get" anything from the experience, other than exactly what he wanted - peanuts for his peanut gallery, as another poster said.

I've been to Catholic masses and I don't really enjoy or get them. Unless there is an event which I want to attend (like a wedding or funeral), it is highly unlikely that I will go there again.

hmmm.... Leo Ryan being compared to PZ Meyers? Now, that's funny.

I didn't know he poked or stabbed them! Or that he was "laughing his head off" while he did it!

I only read his observations on the ceremony, and his musings afterwards.

You must have inside info!

that he hit his mark.

I doubt you would be so *understanding* if this were aimed at a group you were a member of. Like, say, the lounge or feminists or atheists.

But that is what it is.

See you around the campfire.

Judgy, judgy, judgy.

That's pretty much her thing.

At least in this case, you are being quite consistent.

No atheist posted this article here.

Rug did. He dredged it up and posted it here so you could be offended by it.

It's not posted in the Atheist's forum.

Your targets were more than cbayer; but you were hoping some people would feel offended, weren't you?

so it's not surprising that I wasn't offended. I presumed you were hoping for reactions like #7.

You're taking back all your previous comments about Myers being an ass and so on, are you?

It's *your* problem.

You do not find it so. Therefore the natural question is why you accuse me of posting an article, which you do not find offensive, to offend.

It's not my problem. I didn't write that shit or agree with it. Perhaps you do. In that case, it's your problem.

You, for example, think the article is 'shit'. You have acted, all along, as if you have a problem with the article. You had enough of a problem that you reposted it on DU.

Or is it just that you think all shit articles, whatever their topic, should be reposted on DU?

This article was written by an oft-referenced self-described atheist activist. What he says should be known even when it's shit. And so it is.

I expect a cartoon to be posted any time now.

Hypocrites are so easily exposed, aren't they?



Well done!

"No thanks, I'm a vegetarian"

She is NOT an ass.

Nor is she a middle-aged bigot collecting peanuts to throw to his peanut gallery.

Sorry if that offends the pity brigade in here, but it's a valid point. If I were still a believing Catholic when taking communion, I would have to have a serious discussion with myself about my vegetarianism. Or are we pretending transubstantiation isn't a real holding of the RCC?

Perhaps that is a two-way mirror.

While I have often heard you complaining that you are persecuted for your self-professed atheism to the extent that, despite your middle class privilege, you can not openly speak of your beliefs, I don't recall calling myself a persecuted Christian in the U.S. Or any one else in this group for that matter. Kindly point it out.

If you want to say that being a Christian and being an atheist in this country are the same, then we have nothing to discuss.

As to this thread, the number of people who have their undies in a bunch because some atheist dare to say that going to church didn't make his sphincter tingle is amazing. There is nothing in the article that says he was anything but polite while in church. He doesn't say that his stood up in the middle and said "This is bullshit." Nope, all he did after the fact was say that he doesn't get it and it doesn't do shit for him. But so many believers are in this thread talking about how much of an ass he is. Well, I'm sorry that your fragile little egos aren't getting stroked.

I do see fragile little egos though.

You owe me a new keyboard.

I must have read it wrong.

Or at least with a stick of some bluntness.

We dressed up real nice.
It seemed to last forever....

Blood of this, blood of that, blood of the lamb, blood, blood, blood.....

Somebody asked my eldest (who WAS a vegetarian at the time)
if she wanted to receive communion (a no-no, so I'm told) and that was
when she replied, "No thanks, I'm a vegetarian" (or vegan, I can't remember
what she was at the time).

Seemed appropriate to me!

quite revealing. Anyone with manners or respect for others would have replied with a simple no thank you.

What you deem "childish", I deem appropriate.

You brook no response but your own.

Quite revealing indeed.

And if it was, would it be OK for a vegetarian to eat it?

Seems that "manners and respect for others" ends with you having to have the same for vegetarians.

You're good at this.

still can't believe you posted it without previewing it first.

And considering how you prattle about every time one of your precious religious institutions gets ANOTHER one of it's attempts to force your religion on everyone else slapped down as Unconstitutional, perhaps it is YOU who need to figure out what respect is before admonishing others for their lack of it.

My only complaints are where do you draw the line between what is establishment and what is not but feel free to continue your dishonest representations of my position. It is quite amusing to see the lengths you will go to stretch the truth about my comments and positions. The most accomplished contortionists would be proud of your twists

You consistently post your opposition to every story about that happening that is posted here, as well as when anyone posts about fighting back against the overreach of the very christian privilege you enjoy. I need not stretch, embellish, or exaggerate your words, as they are there for all to see.

says a lot about which parts of a moral code some like to cherry pick for themselves while condemning others for it.

You don't even make sense anymore.

I think it has something to do with confirmation bias. He is, after all, a scientist.

Is this, then, the first of a series or have their been more?

The other one was about what you'd expect.

If it were confirmation, he'd have complained about the longer Mass.

(Sorry, I couldn't help it. )

review of his first visit (1st Lutheran Church)

http://freethoughtblogs.com/pharyngula/2013/06/02/an-atheist-goes-to-church-1stlc/

This review is not nearly as acrimonious as the OP posted here and not nearly as offensive. He almost seems sincerely curious. I suspect from reading this, but can not be sure, that the Lutheran Church service brought back some of the positive feelings he may have had towards his own church as a child. He even wistfully wishes for some of the socialization that the L provided from atheist groups, which I found very interesting.

Of course he finds it difficult to understand why people go to church. It means nothing to him. If he really wants to know, though, he might want to hang around after the service and talk to the people that choose to be there. Most churches have a coffee hour after the service. If you like the social aspects, I am at loss as to why he didn't avail himself of the opportunity to participate in that.

Anyway, thanks for the link. I don't really understand your last sentence, so won't respond to it.

figure out why people attend church. That would be fine if he really was sincere in his objective. It is apparent, however, that he does not have an open mind; instead, he just makes fun of many aspects of the service and complains that it's boring and a waste of time. I don't care much for church services, either, but instead of mocking them and sneering at the people who do find meaning in them, I just don't go. Maybe he should do the same. Leave church to people who believe in it and spend his Sunday mornings sleeping in or playing golf.

He has no business attending public services (all are welcome!) and making observations.

I observe he's an ass.

But if he wants to be taken seriously as an "objective" observer he should dispense with the mockery and snark. If he's sincerely interested in finding out what attracts people to religion he wouldn't be sitting there bitching about how boring and silly he considers the service to be; he'd stick around and ask people why they attend: He'd ask what it is about the service that they find meaningful. Do they attend because their family expects them to? Or because they're afraid God will punish them somehow if they don't? Do they feel better/happier/more relaxed because they went to church? What do they think actually happens when they take Communion? I'd take the guy seriously if he seemed interested in those questions; but if all he does is look down his nose and make fun of the service and the people who attend, he's just being an ass. And he should stay the hell home.

Am I missing something here?

He DID say the music was nice.

"I’m trying to make a sincere effort to learn what the religious folk in town are getting out of this tedious affair of going to church, but it’s evading me."

If he was really making a sincere effort "to learn what the religious folk in town are getting out of this tedious affair of going to church," wouldn't he just ask those religious folk instead of going to their churches and making fun of them?

He wants to see, obviously, from HIS point of view, what can be edifying about the service.

Nothing is the answer....well besides the music.

I find sitting through church services the same, except I don't even like the music.
I don't go to churches unless someone IMPLORES me to.

Good to know I'm not allowed to have opinions or make my OWN VALUE JUDGEMENTS
about it.

However, if you go to a church service for the ostensible purpose of trying to understand why people attend but your "report" on that experience consists entirely of mockery and snark, you should not be surprised if others think you are a bit of an ass. They are entitled to their opinions, too.

He couldn't get into a group that all believes in !!!SATAN!!!!

You have every right to be offended!
Perhaps you should never leave the "sanctuary"!

He has every right to express his opinion.

At one point I had given thought to going to the creationist museum, but decided against it for many reasons. One of those reasons is that I knew I would not go there with an open mind, but merely to mock them.

Could I have taken the approach you describe, I might have been more likely to go. My interest would not have been sincere.

OTOH, I have attended many different types of religious events and my interest has been truly sincere. I find them generally fascinating and enjoy talking to people about what it means to them. While I don't generally get it, I often walk away more enlightened about the appeal to others.

Last edited Sun Jun 16, 2013, 04:17 PM - Edit history (1)

Not always an easy concept.

I'll bring some Fritos and chips and a gallon of Chocolate milk. We'll need them.

^SOMEONE^ might change it into Baileys Irish Cream

Would you like some random links as a reply?

for daring to say that he thought the service was stupid. He should only talk about wonderful it is.

I can give you some more reasons if you like.

If he thinks there's an epic Science-v-Religion struggle, in which he has heroically decided to take the side of Science, then why doesn't he just go do more scientific work?

Last edited Sun Jun 16, 2013, 06:47 PM - Edit history (1)

if whackadoodle creationists and other fundies weren't constantly trying to foist their beliefs on the rest of of as science and wise public policy. Do you think that serious scientists and educators wouldn't rather be spending their time more productively than fending off endless attempts to teach creationism in public schools or answering the latest brain-dead attempt to "prove" that evolution is impossible?

She certainly didn't approve of it.