It's whatever silly rationalization you can come up with to justify your personal religious beliefs and then feel real good about it, silly.

It's altering your long and deeply-held religious beliefs in the direction of whatever socio-political winds are blowing in order to try and remain relevant and privileged.

Serious Theologians only, please.

making religion as it's written seem palatable, humane and rational, and convincing people that it's Ok to believe in.

It's altering your long and deeply-held religious beliefs in the direction of whatever socio-political winds are blowing in order to try and remain relevant and privileged, and convince yourself that your religion was right all along.

that "solid theology" is an argument that reassures you that the Bible says what you were already convinced it should say, and means what you were already convinced it should mean.

Great post!

We are expected to lavish praise upon the faith communities that are finally doing the right thing - while simultaneously ignoring the fact that the religious beliefs of faith communities who opposed progress for so long had something to do with the problem in the first place. Religion gets full credit when it does something good, but none of the blame when it does something bad.

Pointing this out gets you branded an evil militant fundie atheist bigot, and shunned.

but that crunching noise you hear is knees hitting teeth for seven posts solid.

The last few years have seen the emergence of a rapidly-growing consensus among non-fundamentalists that LGBT rights are human rights, and that equality under the law benefits everyone, including majority populations. Pagans have been there for a loooong time--millenia for some--but it's encouraging to have more and more company as the barriers fall.

One of our daughter's friends is working for them and I think they are doing some really good stuff.

Their articles are tightly written and provide excellent links.

Whether one wants to acknowledge the good works being done is up to the individual.

I agree that having more and more company in this and other progressive/liberal causes is very encouraging.

"Whether one wants to acknowledge the good works being done is up to the individual."

The only refusal to acknowledge going on is generally by folks like yourself who only ever want to acknowledge the good things done by religion or religious people and dismiss the bad (or insist on attributing the bad to anything BUT religion).

Many people feel that unless we all take an honest, open approach to the pluses AND minuses of religion, real change cannot happen. You have continued to marginalize those people, putting them on a "bad guys" team and trying to score "wins" against them. This is counter-productive, stifles discussion, and fosters incivility such as that exhibited by okasha.

I of course realize that you've put me on your "bad guys" team and you won't acknowledge a thing I say. But others will see it, and figure out what you're doing.

I can't wait to read your book!

are just SO proud of having finally joined the party...late, as usual...that they never get tired of telling the rest of us that they've arrived. Why do you suppose it took them so loooooooong? Lousy traffic?

And would you like a list of pagan cultures that had no use for equality under the law whatsoever?

" the truth is that clergy and people in the pews have long been working both under the radar and publicly for LGBT equality."

While the opponents to Gay rights are vocal and relentless. The religious supporters have been silent. What are they afraid of?
If the cause is true and right, why hide from the light? If a clergy-person spoke out every time another condemned gay people, the religious bigots would be shown for what they are.

Under the radar means just that. They don't get the kind of press the religious right gets. They are not as controversial. But they have been working just the same.

No one is hiding and I think they are very glad for getting some attention at this point.

But, then again, when you get slapped down by members of your own team, such has happened in this very thread, one might want to keep working below the radar.

These groups deserve praise and support.

of bigotry and prejudice that requires these struggles in the first place, is something that actively discourages liberal believers around the country from speaking out and reclaiming their faith?

If so, that is profoundly absurd. This is a discussion board. People are free to voice their opinions and discuss issues (apparently much to your chagrin). You cannot control them or silence them, nor do you have ANY evidence whatsoever that their comments made on an anonymous message board on the Internet are responsible for progressive believers failing to become politically powerful.

Your continued insinuations otherwise are only causing division and discord - ironically bringing about the very thing you claim to oppose.