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cbayer

(146,218 posts)
Mon Sep 16, 2013, 01:28 PM Sep 2013

Peace Sign Satanic? Dutch Christian School Destroys 3,000 Calendars Over One Image

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/09/14/dutch-school-peace-sign-satanic_n_3915627.html?utm_hp_ref=religion

Posted: 09/14/2013 8:46 am EDT



A Christian school in the Netherlands, Pieter Zandt Scholengemeenschap, was horrified to find an allegedly satanic symbol in its latest student agenda, asking parents and students to return the planners for shredding.

That symbol? A peace sign.

School board chairman Johan van Puten told Dutch newspaper Trouw that a Google search revealed that the peace sign allegedly contains a Nero cross, which was used in Roman times to represent the torture of Christians, and now apparently has Satanist connotations. It also has connotations with Nazism, as the Teach Peace Foundation writes that it was used as the symbol for Hitler's 3rd Panzer Division.

Blog Goedgelovig reported that in order to prevent students from using inappropriate planners, Pieter Zandt requires all students to use the official, school-published agenda, though it allows for some creativity by allowing a few students to design it each year. They added tips, jokes, quotes from scripture, and pictures, but now it seems their work was in vain.

more at link
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Peace Sign Satanic? Dutch Christian School Destroys 3,000 Calendars Over One Image (Original Post) cbayer Sep 2013 OP
crazy fuckers gopiscrap Sep 2013 #1
Imbeciles, but they're right about the 3rd Panzer Division. rug Sep 2013 #2
Had you ever heard this before? cbayer Sep 2013 #3
The rest of it about being Satanic? rug Sep 2013 #6
I wore the sign through most of my adolescence, and while the dirty hippie title cbayer Sep 2013 #10
It's a broken and inverted cross. Mariana Sep 2013 #29
Never heard that either. cbayer Sep 2013 #30
This was in the 1980's, in Alabama. Mariana Sep 2013 #32
Now that I remember. cbayer Sep 2013 #33
I heard this sort of stuff from the rightwing back in the Vietnam era: struggle4progress Sep 2013 #20
None of those idiots better show up in a louis-t Sep 2013 #8
I always saw these as distinctly different. cbayer Sep 2013 #17
Look at the link. 1st Panzer emblem looks just like Mercedes logo. louis-t Sep 2013 #21
But the peace symbol has an additional line. cbayer Sep 2013 #23
I made a joke about Mercedes... louis-t Sep 2013 #24
Sorry, I didn't get it. cbayer Sep 2013 #25
Sorry, 1st Panzer 1940-41 louis-t Sep 2013 #22
Maybe not: the web is a fine source of mass disinformation. Anybody can put together struggle4progress Sep 2013 #15
It's not even clear what "the 3rd panzer division" means, since struggle4progress Sep 2013 #18
name a symbol representing 2000 years of murder, it has 2 lines at rt angles to each other nt msongs Sep 2013 #4
An "L"? rug Sep 2013 #7
Could be a capital T. cbayer Sep 2013 #11
Oh, look! Europeans can be every bit as STUPID as Americans!!! MADem Sep 2013 #5
As a print broker, I applaud this ignorance and encourage more such stupidity. . . Journeyman Sep 2013 #9
As a print broker, would you have thought this would have been a problem? cbayer Sep 2013 #12
I would have questioned it and pointed out the possibility of a potential problem. . . Journeyman Sep 2013 #13
Great philosophy. cbayer Sep 2013 #14
Some people think the peace sign is satanic. trotsky Sep 2013 #16
Wow, just wow! hrmjustin Sep 2013 #19
Definitely Satanic DJ13 Sep 2013 #26
Did you know the teaparty was using it!!! cbayer Sep 2013 #27
Thats...... DJ13 Sep 2013 #28
Condemning Nazi symbols is a long tough row to hoe. It's enough they destroyed the swastika. dimbear Sep 2013 #31

cbayer

(146,218 posts)
3. Had you ever heard this before?
Mon Sep 16, 2013, 01:38 PM
Sep 2013

When I read this, I thought there might be some mass hysteria going on.

 

rug

(82,333 posts)
6. The rest of it about being Satanic?
Mon Sep 16, 2013, 01:49 PM
Sep 2013

The only thing I vaguely remember was that in a litany of abuse during Vietnam demonstrations.

"Dirty happies! Communists! Satanists! Traitors!", etc. To be fair, 2 out of 4 were incorrect.

Who knew there's some nutty scholarship around the peace sign?

cbayer

(146,218 posts)
10. I wore the sign through most of my adolescence, and while the dirty hippie title
Mon Sep 16, 2013, 02:04 PM
Sep 2013

appealed to me, I never heard anyone relate it to satanism.

Mariana

(14,858 posts)
32. This was in the 1980's, in Alabama.
Mon Sep 16, 2013, 05:23 PM
Sep 2013

It was about the same time I first heard about the reversed Satanic messages in popular songs.

cbayer

(146,218 posts)
33. Now that I remember.
Mon Sep 16, 2013, 05:26 PM
Sep 2013

Peace symbols were an important part of my church during the Viet Nam era. The church was very focused on efforts to stop the war.

It's interesting how different churches saw it in such different way.

struggle4progress

(118,319 posts)
20. I heard this sort of stuff from the rightwing back in the Vietnam era:
Mon Sep 16, 2013, 03:42 PM
Sep 2013

"peace sign is a symbol of devil worship" was most common. It was crazy bullshit back then and it's crazy bullshit now

struggle4progress

(118,319 posts)
15. Maybe not: the web is a fine source of mass disinformation. Anybody can put together
Mon Sep 16, 2013, 02:56 PM
Sep 2013

a webpage making such claims

It's not clear how standardized division markings were. A number of site claim and inverted Y with two bars || as the 3rd Panzer symbol, but it's not standardized even when I find it:



The Mercedes-Benz tristar dates from the earliest days of the company



and the tristar-in-circle was in use in WWI



Since Hitler was ferried about in a luxury Mercedes-Benz, and since the company did actually manufacture tanks during the war, it's easy enough to imagine that a tank crew here and there might have jokingly placed a cartoon of the company symbol on their tank -- or converted an inverted Y into the now more-recognizable Mercedes-Benz symbol by drawing a circle around it -- and made comments like "Hitler has a Mercedes, and now he's given us one too!"

struggle4progress

(118,319 posts)
18. It's not even clear what "the 3rd panzer division" means, since
Mon Sep 16, 2013, 03:38 PM
Sep 2013

there were several of them

Wikipedia gives the following symbols for the Wehrmacht's 3rd panzer division:


But the SS also had its own 3rd panzer division "Deaths-head"


MADem

(135,425 posts)
5. Oh, look! Europeans can be every bit as STUPID as Americans!!!
Mon Sep 16, 2013, 01:49 PM
Sep 2013

And then some!

The peace sign was really designed in 1958 by British artist Gerald Holtom for the Campaign for Nuclear Disarmament (CND), which was having its first major march in England. Holtom explained that the symbol superimposed the semaphore letters "N" and "D" over each other.



It's nice to know we aren't the only crew with idiots among us!

Journeyman

(15,036 posts)
9. As a print broker, I applaud this ignorance and encourage more such stupidity. . .
Mon Sep 16, 2013, 02:00 PM
Sep 2013

Nothing separates a fool from his money quicker than a reprint of a perfectly fine project.

As a caring adult, and long-time graphic designer, I feel for the students who will now have to deal for the first time with a fickle client. But better they learn now, and on the customer's dime (or Euro, as the case may be), than to learn so later, when conceivably the customer holds them (or their employer) responsible and they have to pay for the reprint.

cbayer

(146,218 posts)
12. As a print broker, would you have thought this would have been a problem?
Mon Sep 16, 2013, 02:14 PM
Sep 2013

Do you look at things with an eye to warning clients that they might have a problem with the product or do you just do what they ask?

Journeyman

(15,036 posts)
13. I would have questioned it and pointed out the possibility of a potential problem. . .
Mon Sep 16, 2013, 02:33 PM
Sep 2013

My philosophy (as both a broker and designer) is to give the client what they want, not what they've asked for.

I would have definitely questioned the peace sign as a symbol capable of being perceived as anti-Christian, especially given the nature of the client (a religious school). I was unaware of the association with the Panzer divisions, but that would now be another point I'd bring up in any future discussion with this symbol in a project.

After the proofs are signed off, however, and a project is printed (and especially if the client has gone against my advice), I'm more than pleased to reprint it. Usually at a lesser cost, if possible, since these situations are always a sore point for everyone involved at the client's office, and the more we can ease that pain the better they'll think of us when the next project comes up.

My snark was addressed more to the "adults" in this situation who didn't completely proof their students work. Whenever you're dealing with students, especially young students, it's best to err on the side of over-analysis than it is to blithely approve whatever they hand you.

cbayer

(146,218 posts)
14. Great philosophy.
Mon Sep 16, 2013, 02:42 PM
Sep 2013

It amazes me how many things get printed with misspellings or phrases that could be completely misinterpreted.

I would have seen the peace symbol as innocuous. Not sure what the context was in these books, though.

trotsky

(49,533 posts)
16. Some people think the peace sign is satanic.
Mon Sep 16, 2013, 03:07 PM
Sep 2013

Others believe that contraception is against god's will and they refuse to dispense it.

And some think certain articles of clothing are too revealing for church. (Few of them, if any, would draw that line in the same place, of course.)

As long as religious beliefs are special, as long as we continue to protect them from real criticism and analysis, someone will always try to play the trump card of "These are my beliefs! I don't need to justify them!" and if that person is in a position of power or influence, they'll affect others.

dimbear

(6,271 posts)
31. Condemning Nazi symbols is a long tough row to hoe. It's enough they destroyed the swastika.
Mon Sep 16, 2013, 05:15 PM
Sep 2013


(Mickey Mouse on the nose of a Messerschmidt)

I don't think they ever used Pooh. Too peaceful.

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