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n2doc

(47,953 posts)
Sun Mar 30, 2014, 10:22 AM Mar 2014

Black death was not spread by rat fleas, say researchers

Vanessa Thorpe

Archaeologists and forensic scientists who have examined 25 skeletons unearthed in the Clerkenwell area of London a year ago believe they have uncovered the truth about the nature of the Black Death that ravaged Britain and Europe in the mid-14th century.

Analysis of the bodies and of wills registered in London at the time has cast doubt on "facts" that every schoolchild has learned for decades: that the epidemic was caused by a highly contagious strain spread by the fleas on rats.

Now evidence taken from the human remains found in Charterhouse Square, to the north of the City of London, during excavations carried out as part of the construction of the Crossrail train line, have suggested a different cause: only an airborne infection could have spread so fast and killed so quickly.

The Black Death arrived in Britain from central Asia in the autumn of 1348 and by late spring the following year it had killed six out of every 10 people in London. Such a rate of destruction would kill five million now. By extracting the DNA of the disease bacterium, Yersinia pestis, from the largest teeth in some of the skulls retrieved from the square, the scientists were able to compare the strain of bubonic plague preserved there with that which was recently responsible for killing 60 people in Madagascar. To their surprise, the 14th-century strain, the cause of the most lethal catastrophe in recorded history, was no more virulent than today's disease. The DNA codes were an almost perfect match.

more

http://www.theguardian.com/science/2014/mar/29/black-death-not-spread-rat-fleas-london-plague

29 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Black death was not spread by rat fleas, say researchers (Original Post) n2doc Mar 2014 OP
That is interesting new data. In_The_Wind Mar 2014 #1
Well, there are two forms of plague. malthaussen Mar 2014 #2
the airborn type is incredibly virulent roguevalley Mar 2014 #12
actually 3 forms.... Javaman Mar 2014 #13
I was always taught it was likely airborne TxDemChem Mar 2014 #3
I'd heard that the persecution of cats in the Dark Ages contributed to diseases catbyte Mar 2014 #5
Actually I was taught that as a kid too n/t Victor_c3 Mar 2014 #14
Pope Gregory IX... Javaman Mar 2014 #15
Ugh. I hope Basement Cat is using his moldy old carcass as a chew toy! catbyte Mar 2014 #16
That sounds almost like what I remember learning. TxDemChem Apr 2014 #24
Me too. Yo_Mama Mar 2014 #19
I guess if you've learned to kill so effectively... Wounded Bear Mar 2014 #4
I don't work for the CDC ThoughtCriminal Mar 2014 #6
The cranial rectimitis is epidemic, TBS...nt Wounded Bear Mar 2014 #7
Actually, that's cranio-rectal impaction Warpy Mar 2014 #9
If I remember correctly, there were three cases of a plague in the US recently. TxDemChem Apr 2014 #25
If you think about it from a natural selection standpoint, highly virulent diseases aren't favored Victor_c3 Mar 2014 #17
Pneumonic plague spreads very efficiently via droplet Warpy Mar 2014 #8
I always assumed it was airborne. Laelth Mar 2014 #10
It's also surprising that the bird's beak masks Warpy Mar 2014 #11
Yeah, they really did know something about disease control, esp. in Italy Yo_Mama Mar 2014 #20
By the time someone became ill, it was often too late Warpy Apr 2014 #21
In the later stages the various cities undertook preemptive quarantines. Yo_Mama Apr 2014 #22
Right. Too little, too late Warpy Apr 2014 #23
I think that's for their own quarantine provisions Yo_Mama Apr 2014 #28
Damn. I can trap the poor rats, but Bigmack Mar 2014 #18
May I just say I love this thread. TxDemChem Apr 2014 #26
History, virology, science. All that's missing now is Monty Python ! CincyDem Apr 2014 #27
Darn, I've got no sound TxDemChem Apr 2014 #29

malthaussen

(17,200 posts)
2. Well, there are two forms of plague.
Sun Mar 30, 2014, 10:41 AM
Mar 2014

Or so I understand. The flea-borne plague is less virulent than the airborne type.

-- Mal

TxDemChem

(1,918 posts)
3. I was always taught it was likely airborne
Sun Mar 30, 2014, 11:00 AM
Mar 2014

Maybe it's just my schooling, but I never heard about any fleas. Maybe I assumed as much after studying virology. I get the flu easily (compromised immune system), so I tend to think of airborne transfers perhaps more often than I should.

catbyte

(34,393 posts)
5. I'd heard that the persecution of cats in the Dark Ages contributed to diseases
Sun Mar 30, 2014, 11:35 AM
Mar 2014

because there weren't enough cats to kill the rodents & they overpopulated carrying many diseases. Folks wised up & stopped persecuting the kittehs. It could have started with fleas then mutated into an airborne virus.

Who knows?

Javaman

(62,530 posts)
15. Pope Gregory IX...
Mon Mar 31, 2014, 09:07 AM
Mar 2014

"It is claimed in popular books and websites that Gregory's condemnation of heretics worshipping Satan in the form of a black cat in his bull Vox in Rama led to a massacre of cats across Europe. It is also claimed that this supposed "cat massacre" worsened the Black Death a century after Gregory's time, because the plague was spread by rats who were unchecked in Europe due to the decline of cat numbers."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pope_Gregory_IX#Papacy

"Vilification of black cats

Some historians have claimed that Vox in Rama is the first official church document that condemns the black cat as an incarnation of Satan. In the bull the cat is addressed as “master” and the incarnate devil is half-man half-feline in nature. Engels claims that Vox in Rama was “a death warrant for the [cat], which would be continued to be slaughtered without mercy until the early nineteenth century. It is said that very few all-black cats survive in western Europe as a result."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vox_in_Rama#Vilification_of_black_cats

TxDemChem

(1,918 posts)
24. That sounds almost like what I remember learning.
Tue Apr 1, 2014, 07:25 AM
Apr 2014

I still don't recall fleas, but I do recall the killing of cats because Jewish families tended to keep cats, whereas Christians did not.
Very fascinating study.

Wounded Bear

(58,662 posts)
4. I guess if you've learned to kill so effectively...
Sun Mar 30, 2014, 11:23 AM
Mar 2014

There's no need to evolve fully.

I was one of the flea-borne believers. This is new info to me, and interesting. My biggest fear over the past few years is that it would take a pandemic of "Black Death" proportions to get Americans' collective heads out of their asses on health care reform.

ThoughtCriminal

(14,047 posts)
6. I don't work for the CDC
Sun Mar 30, 2014, 01:07 PM
Mar 2014

but I'm pretty sure that there is already a pandemic of collective head up ass. And that is a pretty sure fire way to catch something nasty.

Warpy

(111,267 posts)
9. Actually, that's cranio-rectal impaction
Sun Mar 30, 2014, 03:41 PM
Mar 2014

that causes so many people to waddle around with their heads up their asses.

It's long been known that the flea bite route didn't cause the pneumonic plague that wiped out most of the people in Europe in the fourteenth century.

TxDemChem

(1,918 posts)
25. If I remember correctly, there were three cases of a plague in the US recently.
Tue Apr 1, 2014, 07:32 AM
Apr 2014

They all stemmed from either New Mexico or Arizona. I think it was in the late 90s that two Native American young adults died and they possibly tied it to rats in the home. Then there was an older man and his wife vacationing in NYC. I still lived in Jersey at the time and after the anthrax deliveries and 9/11, they thought he might be the carrier of some biological weapon. The only thing is, I can't remember if these were pneumonic or bubonic. Crazy things, these mini critters.

Victor_c3

(3,557 posts)
17. If you think about it from a natural selection standpoint, highly virulent diseases aren't favored
Mon Mar 31, 2014, 09:17 AM
Mar 2014

If the disease kills too quickly for the host to spread it, less virulent varieties would spread better than the more lethal varieties.

I believe that is the case to syphilis when it first emerged roughly 500-600 years ago. The initial strain and infections was extremely virulent and then less virulent forms became the norm that we see today.

Warpy

(111,267 posts)
8. Pneumonic plague spreads very efficiently via droplet
Sun Mar 30, 2014, 03:39 PM
Mar 2014

just like the flu does. Most cases around here are transmitted by cats and dogs that have played with sick or dead animals outdoors.

Unfortunately, the "rats with fleas" nonsense has been hammered into the heads of so many school children that it's a lot harder to kill than yersinia pestis, itself.

Laelth

(32,017 posts)
10. I always assumed it was airborne.
Sun Mar 30, 2014, 04:48 PM
Mar 2014

The "Great Vowel Shift" occurred right around the same time as the black plague. People learned to keep their mouths more shut when speaking (and the vowels shifted upwards in the mouth) because people became aware that germs were often passed airborne out of people's mouths.

Nice to see some evidence in support of this pet theory.

-Laelth

Warpy

(111,267 posts)
11. It's also surprising that the bird's beak masks
Sun Mar 30, 2014, 07:31 PM
Mar 2014

the physicians of the day wore were also an amazing invention for the time because nobody knew a thing about microbes. Breathing through a wad of fragrant flowers or pine (depending on the season) was almost as effective as the surgical mask is today.

A lot of things shifted as a result of the Black Death in the 1300s, the relationship between labor and aristocracy not the least of them. That there was also a vowel shift is not surprising.

Warpy

(111,267 posts)
21. By the time someone became ill, it was often too late
Tue Apr 1, 2014, 12:12 AM
Apr 2014

as s/he had already infected everybody s/he had met in the last couple of days. Once they were ill, removing them to the lazaretto was futile since they'd already infected everyone in the household. Add to that the poor had to shop daily for what little food they got, so ill or well, they had to expose themselves to other people at risk in the markets and it spread like wildfire.

The rich stayed quarantined behind thick walls, but even they had to be attended by people in the infection chain among their many servants.

One of the best things they did in some locations was burn the home down around all the people who had died inside it. Otherwise, they knew to burn clothing and bedding. They were unaware the bug stayed alive for hours on furniture and other possessions.

They were smart enough to realize that contact with sick people made them sick in turn. They just had little idea how to cope with the fact.

Yo_Mama

(8,303 posts)
22. In the later stages the various cities undertook preemptive quarantines.
Tue Apr 1, 2014, 02:08 AM
Apr 2014

Those were pretty effective. With the lack of modern medicines, that's about all they could do.

Warpy

(111,267 posts)
23. Right. Too little, too late
Tue Apr 1, 2014, 02:18 AM
Apr 2014

but a dearth of labor to support a somewhat dwindled aristocracy gave surviving labor the best deal they'd had since they'd been taxed and indebted off their own land.

I see they're citing up to a 21 day prodromal stage for Ebola. I hope that isn't the case, that the patient went that long past first exposure only because he'd failed to inhale the virus at that time and was infected later. If the prodromal stage increases from the 8-12 hours it has been, that could spell the end of humanity as it is sorted out now.

The only difference is that this time we'll know what's killing us.

Yo_Mama

(8,303 posts)
28. I think that's for their own quarantine provisions
Tue Apr 1, 2014, 09:15 AM
Apr 2014

I seem to remember from earlier outbreaks that it could be days, though.

We would stop Ebola if it were to break out, but we would have to resort to draconian quarantines, and they would have a dire effect on the global economy.

 

Bigmack

(8,020 posts)
18. Damn. I can trap the poor rats, but
Mon Mar 31, 2014, 05:02 PM
Mar 2014

it's kinda hard to stop breathing….for a few days - weeks - months - and then start back up again….
Ms. Bigmack

TxDemChem

(1,918 posts)
26. May I just say I love this thread.
Tue Apr 1, 2014, 07:36 AM
Apr 2014

We've delved into history, virology and perhaps even lapses in teaching. Awesome and informative!

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