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pscot

(21,024 posts)
Thu Jul 9, 2015, 06:59 PM Jul 2015

Solar activity predicted to fall 60% in 2030s, to 'mini ice age' levels:

new model of the Sun's solar cycle is producing unprecedentedly accurate predictions of irregularities within the Sun's 11-year heartbeat. The model draws on dynamo effects in two layers of the Sun, one close to the surface and one deep within its convection zone. Predictions from the model suggest that solar activity will fall by 60 per cent during the 2030s to conditions last seen during the 'mini ice age' that began in 1645.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2015/07/150709092955.htm

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Solar activity predicted to fall 60% in 2030s, to 'mini ice age' levels: (Original Post) pscot Jul 2015 OP
Time to sell your CFOJ futures... jonno99 Jul 2015 #1
i'm going to buy a hummer, and drive up and down the street HFRN Jul 2015 #2
Then when it's over -- if we haven't done anything to curb CO2 emissions -- eppur_se_muova Jul 2015 #3
But in the meantime pscot Jul 2015 #4
I'm a bit confused caraher Jul 2015 #5
Edited to elide pscot Jul 2015 #6
A recent British study suggests pscot Jul 2015 #7
Interesting caraher Jul 2015 #8
The Little Ice Age was global Yo_Mama Jul 2015 #9
Phil Plait has a piece on this now caraher Jul 2015 #10
The Lord moves in mysterious ways. progressoid Jul 2015 #11
 

HFRN

(1,469 posts)
2. i'm going to buy a hummer, and drive up and down the street
Thu Jul 9, 2015, 07:17 PM
Jul 2015

to do my share to warm the globe to fight this

eppur_se_muova

(36,269 posts)
3. Then when it's over -- if we haven't done anything to curb CO2 emissions --
Thu Jul 9, 2015, 07:26 PM
Jul 2015

we'll make up for lost time in a hurry.

pscot

(21,024 posts)
4. But in the meantime
Thu Jul 9, 2015, 08:03 PM
Jul 2015

the deniers are going to be over the moon with this. They'll see it as a complete vindication and an encouragement to 'stay the course'.

caraher

(6,278 posts)
5. I'm a bit confused
Thu Jul 9, 2015, 09:58 PM
Jul 2015

"Solar activity" is not the same as irradiance; with normal sunspot cycles, the variation in the energy the sun puts out is much less than a percent. That "60% fall" is in number of sunspots, rather than the energy we receive from the Sun.

The "Little Ice Age" was not a global phenomenon. It's not obvious to me how this would do much with respect to global warming.

pscot

(21,024 posts)
7. A recent British study suggests
Fri Jul 10, 2015, 11:03 AM
Jul 2015

the little ice age was indeed global and that similar events over the last 3000 years coincide with variations in sunspot activity. http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2014/11/141119204521.htm#

caraher

(6,278 posts)
8. Interesting
Fri Jul 10, 2015, 11:36 AM
Jul 2015

I think the IPCC hesitated to call it a worldwide climate event in part because of a paucity of good southern hemisphere data. Perhaps that's a gap that will close.

But in any event, the magnitude of any cooling effect still seems much less than the AGW effect. The Little Ice Age seems to have been a period where at most we were 0.6 Celcius below "baseline" (thanks in part to an uptick in volcanic activity). According to Georg Feulner writing at RealClimate, a new "Maunder minimum" might result in 0.3 C of temporary cooling:


It remains to be seen whether this prognosis turns out to be true (there have been some doubts expressed), but since grand minima of solar activity did occur in the past, it is certainly interesting to explore what effects such a minimum might have on 21st century climate if it did occur. This is precisely the question Stefan Rahmstorf and I investigated in a study published last year... In our study we find that a new Maunder Minimum would lead to a cooling of 0.3°C in the year 2100 at most – relative to an expected anthropogenic warming of around 4°C. (The amount of warming in the 21st century depends on assumptions about future emissions, of course).

According to these results, a 21st-century Maunder Minimum would only slightly diminish future warming. Moreover, it would be only a temporary effect since all known grand solar minima have only lasted for a few decades. Critics of this result might argue that the solar forcing in these experiments is only based on the estimated change in total irradiance, which might be an underestimate, or that does not include potential indirect amplifying effects (via an ozone response to UV changes, or galactic cosmic rays affecting clouds). However, our model reproduces the historic Maunder minimum with these estimates of solar irradiance. Furthermore, even if one multiplied the solar effects by a huge factor of 5 (which is unrealistic), no absolute cooling would take place (the temperatures would be temporarily cooler than the base scenario, but the trends would still be warming).

caraher

(6,278 posts)
10. Phil Plait has a piece on this now
Sun Jul 12, 2015, 11:19 PM
Jul 2015
http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2011/06/17/are-we-headed-for-a-new-ice-age/

So where does that leave us? At first, it seems that a solar activity minimum leads to cooling, but as I detailed painfully above, that connection isn’t straightforward. Volcanoes played a strong role, for example, and it’s not at all clear a minimum will lead to an ice age without them. You can’t make a one-to-one connection between a lack of sunspots and an oncoming ice age.

Moreover, it’s not clear the results from the studies indicate a weak cycle next time around. It’s possible, but not a sure thing. And a weak cycle, as Dr. Biesecker points out, doesn’t necessarily mean anything to our climate, volcanoes or not.

Also, keep in mind the Little Ice Age was not a global phenomenon, but a regional one. Even if a weak cycle occurs and it does affect us, the effects would be relatively contained. It would suck for those who got hit by it, but the Earth itself would weather through it. Haha.

And let’s not forget the elephant in the room: the amount of cooling we’d see from this even if it all came together would still be less than the global warming we’ve been experiencing since the 20th century. It might slow things down for a while, but the climate change we’re seeing now — and it’s real, folks — is more than enough to take on a little temporary cooling, especially local cooling.
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