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Cattledog

(5,915 posts)
Sat Dec 16, 2017, 06:09 AM Dec 2017

What If Life On Earth Didn't Start On Earth?



...Earlier this month, astronomers announced the stunning discovery of Oumuamua, an alien asteroid. Diving in from above the plane of planetary orbits that define our solar system, Oumuamua's trajectory and speed tells us it must be a fragment of another solar system. Ejected from some distant star system, it's been tumbling through space for billions of years. Even its needle-like shape (inferred from reflected sunlight) is unlike anything we've found orbiting the sun. Oumuamua is, without doubt, of elsewhere. Though we've long thought fragments like it must exist, Oumuamua marks the first time we humans have ever seen a visitor pass through our little corner of the universe.

And that's where the other story of life on Earth begins.

Panspermia, is the name for the alternative to abiogenesis. The idea is simple: Life did not begin on Earth but was, instead, transported here from somewhere else in the universe. Like seedpods floating on the wind 'til they fall and take root, life on Earth is the child of a distant parent. In the panspermian view (or at least one version of it), an ancient life-bearing version of Oumuamua fell on Earth some three or four billion years ago. Hardy cells buried deep in the rock matrix of that alien asteroid were freed in the impact, seeding our world with its first microbes.

It is, without doubt, a mind-blowing idea. In fact there's a lot of science-fiction based on panspermia conceits. For example, if you add an intelligent species doing the seeding, you find panspermia as the core idea of Ridley Scott's Prometheus. You can also find echoes of it the popular series The Expanse.

Now, with the visit of Oumuamua, the science behind panspermia's science-fiction-y sounding premise gets a little kick upward on the plausibility scale.

https://www.npr.org/sections/13.7/2017/12/15/571122951/what-if-life-on-earth-didn-t-start-on-earth?utm_source=facebook.com&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=npr&utm_term=nprnews&utm_content=2044
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What If Life On Earth Didn't Start On Earth? (Original Post) Cattledog Dec 2017 OP
I think this will make a lot of people happy and a lot of people pissed Angry Dragon Dec 2017 #1
No, it's not. Igel Dec 2017 #17
I find this not only plausible but likely. kaotikross Dec 2017 #2
Except Thou Shall Not Kill hasnt slowed us down in trying to exterminate each other... Canoe52 Dec 2017 #12
I am perfectly content with the origin of life in our own primordial sea. Chemisse Dec 2017 #3
Nobody really knows, and thats the fun of it. kaotikross Dec 2017 #4
"why people seek"? They seek the truth, even if the truth turns out to be more complicated. Bernardo de La Paz Dec 2017 #7
Really? This has nothing to do with Russia and Trump. It is not analogous. Chemisse Dec 2017 #15
We explore with an open mind what-ifs because they stimulate creativity. Bernardo de La Paz Dec 2017 #16
I am reminded of the poster in the background of Fox Molder's room on x-files. Chemisse Dec 2017 #19
That life arose here without any outside influence seems more highly unlikely to me. gtar100 Dec 2017 #20
Carbon is the basis of life on Earth. Chemisse Dec 2017 #22
"the conglomeration of dust and debris coalescing around some central attractor" - huh? Voltaire2 Dec 2017 #24
Life in Sol System might be of local origin Vogon_Glory Dec 2017 #5
I wish tRump would self-deport back to Uranus. Instead we are stuck with Hisanus. . . . nt Bernardo de La Paz Dec 2017 #6
LOL! 2naSalit Dec 2017 #9
It MAY tell us how life began on earth.... tomp Dec 2017 #8
Did we think that the words WhiteTara Dec 2017 #10
The words "we are stardust" refers to the fact that we are composed of atoms Nitram Dec 2017 #14
It just kicks the can down the road. Voltaire2 Dec 2017 #11
I think it's a plausible hypothesis. Nitram Dec 2017 #13
Life grows on a planet, in death it gets encased in rock, which in due time gtar100 Dec 2017 #18
We Are the Martians ThoughtCriminal Dec 2017 #21
How long has that asteroid been in transit? NickB79 Dec 2017 #23

Angry Dragon

(36,693 posts)
1. I think this will make a lot of people happy and a lot of people pissed
Sat Dec 16, 2017, 07:30 AM
Dec 2017
let the debates begin


add:.....One reply for 146 views
could be one of the most important news in 2000 years

Igel

(35,317 posts)
17. No, it's not.
Sat Dec 16, 2017, 02:09 PM
Dec 2017

It's neither new nor is it news.

The idea of panspermia's been around for a long time.

And doesn't dispose of abiogenesis. It just pushes it back in time and elsewhere.

Nobody disputed that things from other star systems could transit ours. It's just the first that's seen, and that was reported what, a couple of months ago? It's always been considered to be fantastically likely, in fact, that bits of other systems have wandered through, and some may have stayed. It's certainly not the first seen, just the first that's been identified. For all we know, some of the other, already identified bits of flotsam are from other systems and we just can't tell from their motion that this is so.

kaotikross

(246 posts)
2. I find this not only plausible but likely.
Sat Dec 16, 2017, 08:05 AM
Dec 2017

Alien "seeding" of habitable planets could well explain how life got here. Alien interference in "the Earth Experiment" would explain a lot of Old Testament miracles as well. It would be nothing, technologically speaking, for an interstellar travelling species to hover in some clouds and issue commands to scared humans in a booming voice with an impressive display of lights, and performing other such feats as lighting a bush on fire, etc. We have lasers capable of that now.
Indeed, much like how we separate two pet dogs if they're fighting, such interference could be interpreted as an act of kindness and love. If we weren't yet advanced (and still aren't, apparently) enough to stop killing each other, a visit or two with some form of rules devised to keep us thriving (i.e. The Ten Commandments) would not only be warranted but just good stewardship. Beings capable of this level of interaction would have likely done the same elsewhere, probably many times before, and tend to know what would work and be useful with an up and coming sentient race.
Such a race could possibly be MUCH closer to what we call "God" than we'll ever be. Descriptions of "angels" from antiquity also bear more than a striking resemblance to alien beings as well.
Current UFO visitations could be chalked up as "taking end of experiment notes". We're advanced enough to be able to detect and possibly intercept alien craft at this point. Humanity may have been written off as one of possibly many failures due to our inability to cohesively come together to solve our problems, or alien observers may just wish to interact after we've resolved our own issues. Hard to say either way but it's worth thinking about.

Chemisse

(30,813 posts)
3. I am perfectly content with the origin of life in our own primordial sea.
Sat Dec 16, 2017, 08:08 AM
Dec 2017

I don't know why people seek a more complicated and unlikely explanation.

Bernardo de La Paz

(49,002 posts)
7. "why people seek"? They seek the truth, even if the truth turns out to be more complicated.
Sat Dec 16, 2017, 09:05 AM
Dec 2017

For example, the simple explanation for Trump-Russia is that Russia on its own diddled social media with bogus bots for its own reasons and coincidentally Hillary won the popular vote and lost the Electoral College.

The truth is more complicated than that, involving collusion, blackmail, money laundering, billionaires sharing analytics with Russia, gerrymandering, voter suppression, stolen Supreme Court seats because McCONnell knew, and more.

Are you perfectly content with the simple explanation above?

Chemisse

(30,813 posts)
15. Really? This has nothing to do with Russia and Trump. It is not analogous.
Sat Dec 16, 2017, 02:02 PM
Dec 2017

This is nothing more than a 'what if'.

An object from outside of our solar system came through our region of space. There is no evidence or suggestion in this finding that life forms were transported here like seeds. That is quite a leap.

How do you know you don't already have "the truth", but are setting it aside because you want a more fanciful answer?

It is possible that life came from outside our solar system, but the simpler explanation is that it arose and evolved here. If actual evidence led elsewhere, I would be happy to explore the idea further, but right now it seems like a waste of energy.

Bernardo de La Paz

(49,002 posts)
16. We explore with an open mind what-ifs because they stimulate creativity.
Sat Dec 16, 2017, 02:08 PM
Dec 2017

Perhaps both scenarios happened and there are markers in DNA records, etc.

It was "what-if" that lead to the discovery of genetics and DNA and its structure.

gtar100

(4,192 posts)
20. That life arose here without any outside influence seems more highly unlikely to me.
Sat Dec 16, 2017, 04:57 PM
Dec 2017

Even without alien visitations or seeding from roaming asteroids, the currently accepted model of the origin of the earth is said to be the conglomeration of dust and debris coalescing around some central attractor. What was it in that mix that brought together the ingredients for life? What was the origin of that material? And what made it possible for its chemistry to support life on a planet? The complexity of material substances was already significant before this solar system was formed. At this point we can only speculate on the origins and history of the source material. But no doubt it's fascinating.

Chemisse

(30,813 posts)
22. Carbon is the basis of life on Earth.
Sat Dec 16, 2017, 09:34 PM
Dec 2017

Carbon is formed in aging stars. It and all the other elements we have here on this planet came from the Big Bang, older stars, and supernova explosions. There is nothing different or new in other solar systems. We all have the same elements (minus a couple that are not found on Earth), albeit in different proportions.

If life formed somewhere else, it would likely have the same carbon-based structure. There is no other element that can do what carbon does. We had all the ingredients here: the primordial soup with water and a concentration of carbon compounds, a little bit of oxygen, and several possible energy sources.

The odds are that there are other planets elsewhere that have these same ingredients, but it's hard to imagine how any living organism could survive travelling through outer space on an asteroid.

Voltaire2

(13,042 posts)
24. "the conglomeration of dust and debris coalescing around some central attractor" - huh?
Sun Dec 17, 2017, 05:04 PM
Dec 2017

That is sort of a garbled description of planet formation, not abiogenisis.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abiogenesis

In any event, "alien seedpods" explains exactly nothing with respect to abiogenisis as it does not explain how the alien life in the pods developed. Absent any actual evidence to support it, it should be rejected simply because it adds complication and explains nothing.

Vogon_Glory

(9,118 posts)
5. Life in Sol System might be of local origin
Sat Dec 16, 2017, 08:33 AM
Dec 2017

Last edited Sat Dec 16, 2017, 11:31 AM - Edit history (1)

Life in our solar system might be of local origin. I remember reading articles in the last few years hypothesizing that the earliest life might have formed on Mars, where conditions were even better for microbial life than Earth billions of years ago. There was a lot of meteoritic bombardment during the Hadean period, some Earth meteorites DID come from Mars, some Earh microbes are still hardy enough to survive crashing through our Atmosphere, so it’s conceivable that some microbes may have hitched a ride way back when.

Of course early Mars was far different from what it is now. Mars looks like a lousy place to look for life these days, but some of Jupiter’s and Saturn’s moons may have “seeded” by other hitch-hikers on other meteoroids, so who knows?

 

tomp

(9,512 posts)
8. It MAY tell us how life began on earth....
Sat Dec 16, 2017, 09:18 AM
Dec 2017

....but it doesn't tell us how life began wherever this postulated asteroid came from.

Kind of like the big bang theory...how the universe began, but what about before that?

Kind of like "God created the universe." Who created God?

So far, the human mind does not seem to be able to entertain that even our best and brightest don't know anything, really, about the ultimate origins of anything, and we settle for answers that only go half-way, and think we know something. Psychologically, we need to believe we know something.

Nitram

(22,803 posts)
14. The words "we are stardust" refers to the fact that we are composed of atoms
Sat Dec 16, 2017, 02:01 PM
Dec 2017

that originated in the supernova of long ago star. In the beginning there were only hydrogen, helium along with trace amounts of lithium and beryllium. Heavier atoms such as carbon and oxygen are only produced the nuclear reactions inside stars and by the forces of a supernova.

The lyrics do not suggest that life itself originated elsewhere, but the the building block of life did.

Nitram

(22,803 posts)
13. I think it's a plausible hypothesis.
Sat Dec 16, 2017, 01:55 PM
Dec 2017

But what are the odds of a form of life being able to survive on Earth even it it are able to survive eons in space? I believe Occam's Razor would favor the theory that life began on Earth because if it originated here it would by definition be adapted to life in this particular environment.

By the way, aerobic bacteria would not have been able to survive in the atmosphere that existed when life first appeared on Earth.

gtar100

(4,192 posts)
18. Life grows on a planet, in death it gets encased in rock, which in due time
Sat Dec 16, 2017, 04:24 PM
Dec 2017

is flung out into space to wander until it finds somewhere else to plant its informational seed. Some a near miss. Some to wander for the remainder of eternity in empty space.

NickB79

(19,246 posts)
23. How long has that asteroid been in transit?
Sun Dec 17, 2017, 12:36 PM
Dec 2017

A billion years? Two billion?

A long time for cells to be in hibernation and still viable enough to multiply in an alien atmosphere.

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