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Newest Reality

(12,712 posts)
Tue Jul 28, 2020, 09:18 PM Jul 2020

Should Quantum Anomalies Make Us Rethink Reality?

This seems like a very good time to consider rethinking reality, actually.

Inexplicable lab results may be telling us we’re on the cusp of a new scientific paradigm

<snip>

“Something like a paradigm is prerequisite to perception itself. What a man sees depends both upon what he looks at and also upon what his previous visual-conceptual experience has taught him to see. In the absence of such training there can only be, in William James’s phrase, ‘a bloomin’ buzzin’ confusion.’”

Hence, because we perceive and experiment on things and events partly defined by an implicit paradigm, these things and events tend to confirm, by construction, the paradigm. No wonder then that we are so confident today that nature consists of arrangements of matter/energy outside and independent of mind.

Yet, as Kuhn pointed out, when enough “anomalies”—empirically undeniable observations that cannot be accommodated by the reigning belief system—accumulate over time and reach critical mass, paradigms change. We may be close to one such a defining moment today, as an increasing body of evidence from quantum mechanics (QM) renders the current paradigm untenable.

Indeed, according to the current paradigm, the properties of an object should exist and have definite values even when the object is not being observed: the moon should exist and have whatever weight, shape, size and color it has even when nobody is looking at it. Moreover, a mere act of observation should not change the values of these properties. Operationally, all this is captured in the notion of “non-contextuality”: the outcome of an observation should not depend on the way other, separate but simultaneous observations are performed. After all, what I perceive when I look at the night sky should not depend on the way other people look at the night sky along with me, for the properties of the night sky uncovered by my observation should not depend on theirs.


Also, there is a very good book that does just that entitled, The Case Against Reality by Donald Hoffman. It's a very practical and scientific approach to the nature of reality that centers on the idea that evolution does not evolve us for truth about reality, but primarily for fitness: Fitness Beats Truth. His Interface Theory of Perception is very compelling and he does address questions that you might pose that seem to be common sense refutations of it. We conscious agents filter for the best icons.

https://getpocket.com/explore/item/should-quantum-anomalies-make-us-rethink-reality
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Should Quantum Anomalies Make Us Rethink Reality? (Original Post) Newest Reality Jul 2020 OP
This message was self-deleted by its author Freelancer Jul 2020 #1
Our contemporaries are nave and superstitious. House of Roberts Jul 2020 #2
Scientists 500 years from now... Binkie The Clown Jul 2020 #3
I doubt this prediction will hold up. NNadir Jul 2020 #9
Consciousness The River Jul 2020 #4
Psilocybe cubensis experiments in my youth made me rethink reality... cayugafalls Jul 2020 #5
Reality rso Jul 2020 #6
Ah, a Frank Tipler of small things. NNadir Jul 2020 #7
I hope the author realizes that an "observation" in QM... Buckeye_Democrat Jul 2020 #8
Observations... Newest Reality Jul 2020 #10
Noncontextual realism is false. Buckeye_Democrat Jul 2020 #11
Human color perception is a faulty example for this premise. hunter Jul 2020 #12

Response to Newest Reality (Original post)

Binkie The Clown

(7,911 posts)
3. Scientists 500 years from now...
Tue Jul 28, 2020, 09:33 PM
Jul 2020

... will look back on our present day science with the same kind of attitude we have toward the science of 500 years ago. In other words, they will say of us "How could they have believed such nonsense?"

NNadir

(33,561 posts)
9. I doubt this prediction will hold up.
Wed Jul 29, 2020, 08:49 AM
Jul 2020

I do think they will hold a jaundiced view of our barbarism and our contempt for the future, but our view of science will be held, assuming the is no descent into mystical anarchy in the period between now and then, will be held up as a great achievement.

cayugafalls

(5,645 posts)
5. Psilocybe cubensis experiments in my youth made me rethink reality...
Tue Jul 28, 2020, 09:39 PM
Jul 2020

If anything it definitely altered my perception of reality and the truth surrounding non-linear time.

rso

(2,273 posts)
6. Reality
Tue Jul 28, 2020, 09:47 PM
Jul 2020

If anyone thinks there is an independent physical World “out there”, they need to listen to descriptions by truthful witnesses of a “Straightforward“ event, as no two accounts are ever the same.

NNadir

(33,561 posts)
7. Ah, a Frank Tipler of small things.
Wed Jul 29, 2020, 08:26 AM
Jul 2020

Albert Einstein according to a conversation reported by Abraham Pais, claimed that the moon exists.

I rather agree with Einstein, if not exactly his position in the context of the reported conversation.

Buckeye_Democrat

(14,858 posts)
8. I hope the author realizes that an "observation" in QM...
Wed Jul 29, 2020, 08:46 AM
Jul 2020

... does not require consciousness.

Something as large as the Moon will be constantly "observed" by photons and all kinds of particles.

Even Schrödinger's cat will definitely be alive or dead as the interior of the box and other unseen particles interact with something so massive compared to subatomic particles. The cat was used as a thought experiment, not in a practical manner for QM.

A wall will likewise "observe" the results of a double-slit experiment regardless of a human observer.

The weirdness of QM comes into play in the world of the extremely small.


Newest Reality

(12,712 posts)
10. Observations...
Wed Jul 29, 2020, 09:38 AM
Jul 2020

Isn't the level of Quantum Mechanics fundamental to what we call material reality? Even on the atomic level, when we examine closely enough, the objects we perceive are actually comprised of space with a extremely small amount of matter/energy.

Don't observations rely on perception. i.e., an observer? What do you mean by a wall observing? At best there are relative relationships you are describing and fundamentally, those are merely quanta determined by measurement. The qualia we experience is another matter. For instance, there are no red, blue or green photons so color is an interpretation of frequencies in the perceiving mind/senses.

The question is about perceptions as veridcal in relation to observed phenomena, here. Local realism asserts that both localism and realism are true. There are experiments, (Bell) that contradict local realism. Noncontextual realism is now what is being brought into question.

For instance, The physicist Chris Fields discards noncontextual realism on different grounds. He shows that if no observer sees all of reality at once, and if observing takes energy, then noncontextual realism must be false.

This also relates to the Hard Problem concerning consciousness itself. A paradigm shift can challenge our ideas about reality and how even how we experience and interpret it.

Buckeye_Democrat

(14,858 posts)
11. Noncontextual realism is false.
Wed Jul 29, 2020, 11:01 AM
Jul 2020

Small things have traits that are probabilistic until observed/measured, and the energy used in that interaction will then make the wave function for that small thing collapse to definite values.

That has nothing to do with the reality of the Moon when it's not observed by conscious beings. That's all I'm saying. I've come across that kind of nonsense in the past and the summary for this article seems to be implying it.

We're dependent on energy to observe anything, and similar energy will make any wave function for the freakin' huge Moon collapse constantly.

hunter

(38,328 posts)
12. Human color perception is a faulty example for this premise.
Wed Jul 29, 2020, 11:40 AM
Jul 2020

Language influences color perception because color perception among the great apes is an ugly kludge.

Long ago our mammal ancestors lost the excellent color perception birds and many reptiles still enjoy.

As small animals scurrying around at night, color perception wasn't as important to our mammal ancestors as night vision. Mammals lost two of the four color receptors their ancestors started out with.

Color vision was useful to the ancestors of the great apes. It re-evolved when the red/green color receptor bifurcated, leaving one receptor slightly more sensitive to red, the other more to green. Alas mammals had lost significant autonomous color processing systems as well, so these functions were re-established in the same general purpose areas of the brain that process language, etc.. That's why language has such a strong influence on human color perception.

Personally, as a mad scientist, I don't think quantum physics has anything to do with the human perception of "reality." The universe goes on as it always has whether or not any humans are watching.

Where humans go wrong in our "belief system" is in our perception of time. Time is not this funny fourth dimension that only goes in one direction. It is in fact an intrinsic property of energy. Photons don't see time at all. They have no mass. As more energy is pumped into a system particles begin to exhibit mass. Mass and time are intrinsically related. In "reality" we are all energy patterns written in light. We have trouble seeing this because seeing this hasn't mattered to any of our ancestors, all of whom managed to survive and reproduce going all the way back to the beginning of life on earth and perhaps further. It's difficult to imagine something so vast, and ourselves so small.

For some of us we'd rather believe some small god made humans out of clay to wander around on a flat earth where time moves in one direction; our lives following an arc like an arrow from birth to death.

The Newtonian view of the universe is somewhat larger, the relativistic view larger yet, the quantum/relativistic still larger, but I doubt we're anywhere close to seeing the full depth of this reality and it's likely we never will within the limited processing power of the human mind.

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