This seems to be the most accepted theory in the commentary at the link as well.

Also there is an entertaining comic someone linked to in the commentary that is somewhat on subject.

http://hijinksensue.com/2013/03/06/post-apocalyptic/

Probably some fundie who illegally acts out by "accidentally on purpose" mis-sorting packages with atheist markings or addresses of known atheists on them.

I'd hope the Postmaster General would arrange a sting on this sort of shit, and make sure that anyone caught deliberately mis-sorting or refusing to deliver, or tampering with packages gets instantly fired and criminally prosecuted.

been here for a decade-and-a-half, in the newspaper who knows how many times with letters and atheistic events from my bookshop days. point: people know me here as an atheist.. and i never did get the xmas decorations my mom insisted on sending me. at least, not until fully a MONTH and a HALF later. then suddenly, magically, the pickup slip appeared.

i didn't deserve xmas you see. i'm not just sure of it. i'm sure of it.

Is the mantra in GD currently about this.

"Oh, it must just be customs and the postal service being slow! You're not being picked on!"

Last edited Tue Mar 26, 2013, 04:00 PM - Edit history (1)

but they're about 170 US Dollars give or take a few...I'm not against spending that much on shoes but I'd need to try them on first to see if they are as ridiculously comfortable as their site claims.

And yeah, I think there are maybe a few religious postal workers gumming up the works but I wouldn't say the entire Postal Service was in on it.

that is enough for me to question the type of customers they have!

don't wear kittens on our feet. Sheesh, we BBQ them

we BBQ babies!

AFTER Fumesucker posted the infographic.

I mean, I guess I can understand doubt before the graphic was posted but after? Do people even read before posting?

Her claim is that the automated equipment in the USPS sorting facilities, which includes OCR systems that read shipping labels in order to automatically sort mail, gets confused on packages with writing and marking on them other than the shipping label, resulting in those packages getting rejected by the OCR systems, shuffled off to be manually sorted, resulting in delays.

I'd suggest another study to test that. Send one group of packages with blank packing tape, as the control group, just as before, have the second group with the "ATHEIST" packing tape as before, add a third group with "JESUS SAVES" on the packing tape, and a fourth group with an Islamic crescent and "ALLAH" on the tape.

I'd like to see what happens.

Not the 10x higher chance of the package being "lost" altogether.

You should suggest it to the shoe company.

and I think that your "JESUS SAVES" control would address the issue, but as temporary311 notes this would only account for the ~3 day delay. Are postal workers really so inept that they're 10 times more likely to lose packages than the automated system? And what about the European controls? Do other countries not have automated mail sorting systems? Do they have them, but they're much better than what we have? If they don't have automated systems, are their postal workers that much better than ours?

Will be interesting to find out what they say.

1. They did a controlled study.
2. They did the appropriate statistical analyses.
3. They presented the data in a friendly infographic format.
4. The infographic was posted.
5. The statistics in the fine print were posted.
6. People still deny, snark, and dissemble.

Honest to God, (so to speak) DU has gone to shit and I don't feel this place represents me anymore.

It doesn't matter if you have reproducible data or not. Christians feel that they are the only ones who can be persecuted.

Editted to add "some" Christians.....I really do hate generalizations.

I got a package from Amazon through the USPS recently, I often reuse the boxes because I ship sometimes too so I still had the box around.

Evidently Amazon does not know that having anything other than the address on a box will delay the shipment since the tape they wrapped my box up with clearly has the company name written on it.

of scientific skepticism) how we know the USPS is responsible for the delays and/or losses described

The infographic posted in the GD thread asserts the packages were sent from Berlin (which I presume means the one in the Federal Republic of Germany, not Berlin NH or Berlin MA or Berlin MD or Berlin PA or some other Berlin). It is my impression -- and I am sure someone will correct me if I am wrong -- that the USPS does not offer service in the Federal Republic, or in any other foreign country or territory, but has instead established interfaces with mail services abroad through various international agreements

Moreover, the shoe company website asserts:

... Once shipped, the progress of your order can be monitored on www.dhl.de, using the tracking number we have sent you ...

DHL is a worldwide shipping company, and I myself have received various commercial packages sent via DHL in the past. It is my understanding that DHL typically uses its own transport methods to deliver packages to a local post office near the delivery site, there paying local postal delivery charges and relying on the local post office to complete the delivery. This allows DHL to specialize in long distance package transport, without maintaining local delivery infrastructure or fleets of local delivery vehicles:

... Tracking of DHL GLOBALMAIL BUSINESS is possible until injection into postal network ...

The USPS obviously should not bear any responsibility for delays in package handling that occur prior to the actual injection of the package into the USPS network

Because DHL is used by a number of vendors for domestic package delivery in the US, and maintains a number of handling centers across the US for that purpose, it is not immediately clear exactly when packages sent via DHL from the Federal Republic to the US will enter the local postal system here: some might be mailed immediately after arrival in the US, while others might be trucked across the US to other DHL centers before being mailed to local destinations

For this reason, the raw data, rather than the mere summary provided by the infographic, could be informative. For example, one might want to know whether package delays and losses were correlated with the distances packages traveled in DHL or USPS hands. One might also want to know whether delays or losses seemed to be associated with particular DHL or USPS centers: the 37 days required for delivery of a Michigan package, for example, might have many different explanations, and not all possible explanations involve the USPS. Without the raw data, it is difficult to reach definite conclusions

DHL handles the shipping of these packages, not the USPS (which at best might handle the last mile.)

And I do suspect we may have an OCR issue with the sorting equipment rather than active animus against atheists.

Tracking information includes a time stamp and a location. If your package is delayed, you can easily deduce who is responsible based on where the last scan occurred.

the actual situation. General postal services in Germany seem to be provided by the private company DHL:

Deutsche Post, Germany's only universal provider of postal services, is part of Deutsche Post DHL, the world's leading mail and logistics Group

DHL, as I have indicated upthread, also provides package transport in the US, and in various other countries, through a hybrid delivery system, in which packages are first delivered through the private DHL network to a DHL center near the final destination, at which time the packages are then delivered into the local postal system for delivery by the local postal system. This probably means that packages are delivered to various DHL warehouses close to local USPS mailing centers within a few miles (10 miles? 25 miles?) of the final destinations

The shoe company's infographic, which I linked upthread, discusses only when the packages were delivered to DHL in Berlin. But, for these packages, almost all of the handling and transit will occur while the package is in DHL custody. My own experience with DHL, as well as a direct company quote I provided upthread, is that tracking may sometimes effectively stop at the final DHL warehouse, since the package is conveyed from there to the local postal system, somewhere near the final package destination.So information about when packages were delivered to DHL in Berlin doesn't really provide information about time packages lingered in the USPS system prior to final delivery. A proper statistical analysis, of course, would involve the time between first delivery of a package into the USPS system and final delivery by the USPS

I should add that my own experience with tracking (with services other than DHL) is that tracking information is not always entirely accurate: I've frequently been told a shipment is en route, when further investigation shows that the shipment has not yet actually been sent but is merely ready for pick-up by the delivery service

I used to work for the USPS as carrier and a clerk myself.

According to the DHL website, they try to drop off global mail as close to the intended zip code as possible, but this does not mean they deliver packages to local post offices. They drop off their contracted deliveries at Processing and Distribution plants, which can be close to an intended recipient, provided they live near a major city. This is not always the case, though, especially in big states.

If a package is delayed after the "Arrived at Processor" (or however it is worded), the USPS is most likely to blame.

Regarding the accuracy of tracking, it is not unheard of for employees to miss a scan. However, it is virtually impossible to "fake" a scan that was never made. So, again, if the USPS scanned the package prior to the delay, then the delay is almost certainly their fault.

weren't happening in Germany. Some folks who didnt read it tried to put the blame there in the GD thread about this subject.

Tracking the delivery times of packages shipped on the same day is an experimental control. They would have left the manufacturer on the same truck, arrived at the same airport, and departed Germany on the same airplane. This accounts for possible confounds which could have arisen if they tracked shipments across a wider date range (traffic, flight delays, weekends, etc.).

No, it doesn't directly support the claim lodged against the USPS, but it is relevant to the integrity of the data gathered by the manufacturer.

The USPS becomes involved at Stage 4... mostly.

The DHL guys don't load their parcels directly onto USPS LLVs. The packages are still collected by USPS Clerks and distributed to their respective cases on the sorting room floor. From there, it is up to the carrier to load the parcel onto the truck and make the delivery.

And we say "mostly", because DHL admits this isn't always the case. If you look at the map, you'll notice some states somewhat lacking in the number of available DHL mail hubs. Montana, North Dakota, Minnesota, and Wisconsin, for example, have none. DHL's wording on this is rather clear: they take the package as close to the intended zip code as possible (meaning, for as long as it remains profitable to do so) before handing it over the USPS. In some cases, it would seem reasonable to conclude packages spend more time in the care of the USPS than others.

Still, it has always been my point that you can determine where the delays occurred simply by tracking the packages. If the company was competent enough to use experimental controls, then I would like to think this occurred to them as well. Since we do not know, however, I've taken the liberty of sending them an inquiring email.

If I hear from them, I'll post the email here.

and international mailing network, bringing them as close as possible to their destination before transferring them to local postal authorities for final delivery.

5. Delivery - As a USPS Workshare partner, we rely on their local carriers to deliver your domestic items with the rest of the mail. Other dependable postal partners abroad handle final delivery of your international mail."


http://us.dhlglobalmail.com/expedited-mail-process-details.aspx

Nor is reading comprehension.

Since you clearly failed to read the email in its entirety, I'll re-post the pertinent information.

its so-called "control cases," for which there is actual tracking data, to determine whatever actual delays in the USPS are correlated with the company plastering a package with extraneous tape

... but based on your inability to understand the relatively clear information thus provided, combined with your near pathological desire to deny the very reasonable suggestion that a few of the hundreds of thousands of people employed by the USPS may actually be bigots, I daresay any additional information would be as useful to you as ejector seats on a helicopter.

I am not sure why he thinks he can intrude in this safe haven and shit all over a thread. Any atheist applying similar "skepticism" to a thread in the Interfaith Group, or any other of the MULTIPLE safe havens for believers would be quickly shown the door.

... makes it doubly offensive.

Like the big, bad, bigoted atheists are out to defame and destroy the postal service. Fucking absurd.

Get out. I see far more than enough of your absurd and offensive apologetics in the defense of religious believers in every other forum/group on this board. Please allow me just this one to be free of you.

I feel sure that most DUers, yourself included, will not want to attack USPS unfairly and are most interested in getting the actual facts correct, so that the USPS is held accountable only for its own service problems and not for problems that might more properly be associated with other couriers

In the search for relevant facts, it will, of course, first be necessary to understand DHL's operations, a topic about which the shoe company appears to be misinformed: for example, the shoe company seems to believe erroneously that custody of international DHL packages transfers instantly to USPS when the packages arrive in the US, whereas (in fact) a DHL package in the US is first transported to a DHL network site near the final destination, before being injected into the USPS system

Therefore DHL packages, once actually in transit in the US, might experience delays in either the DHL network or the USPS network, and unfortunately the shoe company "study" in this case apparently does not involve tracking, since a poster down-thread reports a shoe company email explaining "we couldn't afford to use tracking in this study"

That is, the shoe company "study," as reported in their infographic, involves no information whatsoever on such critical questions as, "How long did it actually require for package delivery after packages were injected into the USPS network?"

I naturally do not want to disrupt this group, but my tender heart ached at apparently unproven allegations against the USPS, which is (in my experience) a fine institution, employing many fine people and having a long history, beginning even before the mention of the mails in the US Constitution to the time that a certain Benjamin Franklin proposed it

And leave this safe haven. I do not wish to see your religious apologetics in the group any more.

Your tactics and goals are well known. Leave us alone. For once in your existence act as wonderfully as you Christians THINK yourselves to be and get out.