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progree

(10,918 posts)
Mon May 5, 2014, 05:48 PM May 2014

Supreme Court Allows Prayers at Town Meetings

Last edited Tue May 6, 2014, 11:38 PM - Edit history (2)

This is in Late Breaking News. The Town of Greece v. Galloway Case. 5-4 decision says town councils can have Christian prayers.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1014796414

Lots of people in that thread think there is no coercion because you aren't being FORCED to participate. Heck if you are a citizen appearing before a town council because you are asking for a variance on zoning or a building permit, you would feel quite a bit of pressure to play along and not to walk out of the room during (or just before) the prayer ritual. You would reasonably be concerned that such an irreligious action might affect how the town council and majority of attendees feel about you and your zoning matter, especially if it's in a Bible Belt locality.

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Kagan's dissent used excerpts from previous Town of Greece prayers to argue against Kennedy's assertion that the opening prayers were similar to other "ceremonial" civic references to religion, like the "Under God" mention in the Pledge of Allegiance: "prayers evoking “the saving sacrifice of Jesus Christ on the cross,” “the plan of redemption that is fulfilled in Jesus Christ,” “the life and death, resurrection and ascension of the Savior Jesus Christ,” the workings of the Holy Spirit, the events of Pentecost, and the belief that God “has raised up the Lord Jesus” and “will raise us, in our turn, and put us by His side
More: http://news.yahoo.com/supreme-court-expands-local-power-hold-prayer-government-150036691.html
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My understanding is that all of the above is just fine with the majority of the Supreme Court --that to try to keep out explicitely Christian language and restrict prayers to a generic God would put the government in the role of a censor, according to what I heard was part of the majority's reasoning on NPR. And there is no formula or requirement in the ruling that some prayers be given by those of non-Christian faiths or non-faiths

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From Americans United for the Separation of Church and State:

"... Today, in a disappointing 5-4 decision, the high court ruled that opening prayers at town council meetings do not violate the Constitution, even if they routinely promote Christianity. The court said that the content of the prayers is not significant as long as they do not denigrate non-Christians or proselytize. ...

... Americans United will make sure {{good luck with that -Progree}} that Religious Right does not hijack this ruling to promote prayer at school board meetings, civic ceremonies, public schools, municipal awards or any government sponsored event. "


The phrases in Kagan's dissent (drawn from actual Town of Greece City Council prayers) isn't proselytization? Anyway expect to be subjected to more blatantly sectarian invocations in more and more places.
6 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Supreme Court Allows Prayers at Town Meetings (Original Post) progree May 2014 OP
Schools are next NastyRiffraff May 2014 #1
Yes, it is difficult to walk out during the prayer at a public meeting. Curmudgeoness May 2014 #2
You are spot on. TxDemChem May 2014 #4
You know, I will vent here, but Curmudgeoness May 2014 #5
Vocal is probably the best descriptive term TxDemChem May 2014 #6
I still can't believe they allowed this. TxDemChem May 2014 #3

NastyRiffraff

(12,448 posts)
1. Schools are next
Mon May 5, 2014, 07:33 PM
May 2014

The wacko religious right have been trying to get prayer back into schools ever since they successfully got rid of it. "Experts" are busy denying this but I'd be shocked if this isn't their next push.

Curmudgeoness

(18,219 posts)
2. Yes, it is difficult to walk out during the prayer at a public meeting.
Mon May 5, 2014, 07:37 PM
May 2014

I know. I have done it. I walked out prior to the prayer, and returned after the prayer, not after the prayer had started. I did not disrupt the prayer....and still I saw total hostility from most of the people in the room. At a local Democratic meeting.

But what do I expect from 5 wingnut Catholic Justices. They wouldn't have a clue as to how difficult this makes it for people of other faiths or no faith.

TxDemChem

(1,918 posts)
4. You are spot on.
Mon May 5, 2014, 07:59 PM
May 2014

Opting out already ostracizes you before proceedings even begin.

I feel like being more of angry atheist now than ever.

Curmudgeoness

(18,219 posts)
5. You know, I will vent here, but
Mon May 5, 2014, 09:55 PM
May 2014

I have not been militant about it....but I am starting to think that we will have to be more vocal, if not angry. I don't know that anger will help our cause, but we have to find a way to let people know that this is hurtful.

TxDemChem

(1,918 posts)
6. Vocal is probably the best descriptive term
Mon May 5, 2014, 10:26 PM
May 2014

While believers would like to pretend that we don't exist, I feel like a more in- your-face approach is warranted. We should really let our numbers speak for themselves. Get some of those people on the fence to see why we have left the fold.

TxDemChem

(1,918 posts)
3. I still can't believe they allowed this.
Mon May 5, 2014, 07:57 PM
May 2014

I think Lucien Graves may be needed to set an example. Nothing like Satanists to scare the Christ out of a group (pun fully intended).

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