Atheists & Agnostics
Related: About this forumWhy Do Many Christians Still Literally Believe in Demons and Satan? (Alternet article)
Excerpt follows. The whole thing is here and is well worth a read. (I had a hard time choosing excerpted paragraphs because the whole thing is so good.)
Hundred of years after the scientific revolution, the Catholic church still subscribes to the belief that the cosmos is swarming with evil spirits.
By Adam Lee
May 27, 2014 | If there's anywhere in the U.S. where you'd expect aggressively conservative, domineering religion to be a relic of the past, it's tolerant and culturally liberal Massachusetts. But even in that blue enclave, the theocratic impulse is still surprisingly powerful. We found this out when a student group at Harvard University, the Harvard Extension Cultural Studies Club, ignited a furor by announcing that they were planning an educational program of ceremonies from different belief systems around the world, and that one of these ceremonies, in partnership with the New York-based Satanic Temple, was going to be a Satanist black mass.
Because this is an easy mistake to make, it should be emphasized that most Satanists don't literally worship the devil. They're atheists who treat the figure of Satan as an inspiring piece of mythology, a symbol of individual freedom and resistance to oppressive orthodoxy. (One of their current projects is a campaign to end corporal punishment of children in schools.) And, it has to be said, there's also an element of conscious satire in Satanism, a cheeky attempt to shock the easily shocked.
...
But what drew the most outrage is that, in a true black massto the extent that such a thing exists, and isn't just the invention of medieval heresy huntersthere's a prop representing a Eucharist wafer that's symbolically desecrated, perhaps stepped on. A rumor, subsequently denied by the Satanists, that they'd be using a real consecrated wafer drove Catholics to new heights of frenzy. Some commenters urged that the Satanists be arrested and charged with hate crimes (I hate to break it to these people, but holding a religious ceremony that offends members of other religions is not actually a crime in America). Another proposed a Mission: Impossible-type commando raid on the Satanists' meeting place to rescue the imperiled wafer from harm.
...
And the Harvard case is far from an anomaly. As another recent story shows, the Boston believers who spurred this Satanic panic were quite possibly getting encouragement from the very top. Specifically, the pontiff himselfthe allegedly progressive and kindly Pope Francisis pushing a major resurgence of belief in a literal Satan and literal demonic possession. Before he became pope, when he was the Argentinian archbishop Jorge Bergoglio, he called same-sex marriage "a move by the Father of Lies," and subsequent evidence suggests he didn't mean it metaphorically.
AtheistCrusader
(33,982 posts)nonsense.
How do you have a jesus without a satan? Who tempted him? Who does he propose to undo?
Everything unravels if you take away satan. So too some of his 'miracles', casting out of demons and nonsense like that.
Curmudgeoness
(18,219 posts)OMG, I am crying! Not sure if that is tongue-in-cheek or if someone actually seriously proposed that, but I am in tears.
Arugula Latte
(50,566 posts)Seriously, we're supposed to pretend that a cracker becomes man meat -- in the year 2014. And we're not supposed to say that that is just fucking medievally ridiculous, so don't say that, okay?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=3863911
Curmudgeoness
(18,219 posts)or as I say, shit. You held up well, but I saw the usual suspects being all offended. You knew that would happen though. We all know that will happen, which is why I just avoid those threads. Have you ever noticed that I rarely post in that other place? I have nothing to offer that will help, except a few times when I have really got angry at a stupid comment.
But I did get quite a chuckle out of that OP and many of the comments. I would not have remembered that long ago whether I saw it or not....it seemed new to me.
LostOne4Ever
(9,290 posts)The meme you posted or the poster who posted the 24/6 comic
AtheistCrusader
(33,982 posts)"If I were a Catholic Priest, I'd eat donuts all day. Then, I'd transubstantiate them into Jesus while they were in my stomach. I figure He is mostly protein as He was an avid walker. The pounds would just melt off. "
trotsky
(49,533 posts)What a hilarious thread.
You can really see how supposedly liberal, tolerant Christians are really not too far away from their "BAN THAT BLASPHEMY!" fundie brethren.
progressoid
(49,999 posts)WOW
AtheistCrusader
(33,982 posts)what I think of when people in the interfaith forum complain about 'hostility' in the religion forum.
Oh yeah? You think I'm hostile? Go post that same complete bullshit in GD and see how it fares.
Horns.aiff
Rob H.
(5,352 posts)"What? I'm here and I'm not wearing underwear. That's not what you meant by 'commando raid'?"
Curmudgeoness
(18,219 posts)Just what this thread needed, more laughs.
Warpy
(111,352 posts)they were compelled to invent some sort of evil counter force.
Since they think god is all powerful, they're at a loss when you say evil still must exist with his permission, meaning god is not good.
At that point they burst into expletives and stomp off.
One thing about that capricious spoiled teenager god in the OT, he was capable of doing his own dirty work and did. Unfortunately, he also scared little children, something Christians hope to avoid.
Hence, devils and demons.
Arugula Latte
(50,566 posts)but you should pray to God in spite of that plan, because, uh ...
I got nuthin.
Warpy
(111,352 posts)defacto7
(13,485 posts)He caused a bear to devour some children for making fun of one of the OT prophets. Now kiddies, don't you go fooling with prophets.
TxDemChem
(1,918 posts)But I bet when they are home alone, at night, and hear the weird noises that all houses make, they probably have some fear of a demonic presence. At least that's what my grandma does.
I think she also believes our migraines are from the devil, so she prays hers away -it rarely works; I just pop a couple Vicodin.
theHandpuppet
(19,964 posts)Here are a few examples:
Exorcism Thriving in U.S., Say Experts
http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=92541
Exorcist boot camp: Church leaders call for more training against evil
http://www.catholicnews.com/data/stories/cns/1101298.htm
Catholics call for more exorcists to fight rise of Satanism
http://www.vancouversun.com/life/Catholics+call+more+exorcists+fight+rise+Satanism/9820534/story.html
Exorcist Hotline Created By Catholic Church In Milan, More Priests Available To Drive 'Demons' Out
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/12/03/exorcist-hotline-created-_n_2232110.html
Bishop Thomas Paprocki performed an exorcism of the entire state of Illinois for approving same-sex marriage. I'm not sure what that was supposed to accomplish but apparently Illinois is overrun with gay demons.
defacto7
(13,485 posts)and had to do some work late at night when there were no people around. I went in about 11PM and passed a priest on his way out. He asked me what I was doing there that late and I told him. He looked back at the Cathedral with kind of a fearful look and said, "You'll never catch me in there after 11PM. I think that place is haunted. whew..." and walked away. Hell, I was there several times until 4AM, ate my lunch in the attic, spent a night in there with a casket and corpse for a funeral, even sang a song to a dead priest while playing the organ... and a priest is scarred to be in there after 11PM? Weird.
It's amazing the difference when you don't carry mythological fears in your head.
LostOne4Ever
(9,290 posts)more of them don't identify Lucifer as being the good guy.
I mean think about it, all the horrible stuff is done by god, and there Lucifer is offering to help people. The story of genesis itself is about him giving knowledge to adam and eve, and for the crime of knowledge they got kicked out.
That, and then there is this:
[center] [/center]
Act_of_Reparation
(9,116 posts)In the Jewish tradition, Satan and Lucifer appear to be separate entities: Satan being a kind of prosecutor against humanity, Lucifer being a fallen angel (among which there are many).
In any event, there's nothing in Genesis explicitly linking either character to the serpent that tempted Eve. While it is tempting to blame "The Fall" on some great enemy, the story seems to me, more than anything else, a primitive explanation for why snakes travel on their bellies.
AtheistCrusader
(33,982 posts)or more, depending.
I keep telling them, that fuckin' book doesn't reveal ANY truth about the universe or their place in it, but nobody listens to me...
trotsky
(49,533 posts)then you're an EVIL FUNDIE MILITANT ATHEIST who is DESTROYING THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY by alienating ALL RELIGIOUS BELIEVERS!!
AtheistCrusader
(33,982 posts)You know, the 'aspiring to religion' sort.
trotsky
(49,533 posts)they too could be one of the unwashed masses.
AtheistCrusader
(33,982 posts)Response to AtheistCrusader (Reply #21)
trotsky This message was self-deleted by its author.
onager
(9,356 posts)...that our superiors still deign to waste their time with us. And looking down from the awesome heights of their hard-won mediocrity, condescend to try and explain complex philosophical concepts to us unworthy idiots. Complex, subtle, nuanced concepts like "other ways of knowing" and "the Pope is always right, even if I'm not Catholic."
Curmudgeoness
(18,219 posts)Ain't that the truth.
AtheistCrusader
(33,982 posts)I love salting internet discussions on religion with them.
Rob H.
(5,352 posts)trotsky
(49,533 posts)I think this one is my favorite:
LostOne4Ever
(9,290 posts)Its hard to only pick out a few