Atheists & Agnostics
Related: About this forumOf Miracles and Atheists
Please someone tell me this isn't what passes for deep theology that we mediocre types just can't bring ourselves to understand?
http://www.zenit.org/en/articles/of-miracles-and-atheists
Well yeah, that's kind of the bedrock principle of scientific inquiry - that our universe operates by fixed natural laws. Our understanding of those laws is what's incomplete, and how awesome is it that we have a system that continually updates and fine-tunes our approximations? As opposed to, say, oh I don't know, a hierarchy that insists it possesses universal truth and because of that, cannot change upon receipt of new information? Damn, those closed-minded atheists!
Just when you thought you had an indestructible irony meter. "Lookit them stupid limited atheists, they can't leave room for miracles!" followed by "Lookit them gullible lesser believers, they think there are too many miracles!"
They braced for the head on collision. My mother said she could see the terrified face of the other driver. Then it was over. They looked out the back window of the car to see the tail lights of the other car receding into the distance. My parents were both very sane and spoke about this in a matter of fact way. The two cars went through each other, or time was suspended or one car (or both) de materialized.
Well there you go, atheists! PROOF of a miracle! All you have to assume is that some unknown third party has relayed information correctly to this author, who then has remembered it perfectly through the years to tell to us.
Understand, though: HE isn't one of those believers who is "too quick" to assign a miraculous explanation when a mundane one will do. Such as, perhaps mom exaggerated just a bit when she told the story. Naw, couldn't be!
Deep theological thought here, folks. Enjoy.
progressoid
(49,992 posts)Good grief.
Warren Stupidity
(48,181 posts)He was there. You weren't. He slept right through the dematerialization - another miracle, most people wake the fuck up when they get dematerialized, but not this saint. And before you start wondering "what the fuck", let me tell you that just because I am an atheist doesn't mean I don't believe in miracles, or demons, or gods (but only part of me believes in gods,) or faeries, or vampires, or wood trolls. I had a long discussion with a wood troll one night. Sure, I was whacked out of my skull on psilocybin, but that troll was real. My father was the pope, so I learned a lot from him about atheism, and trolls.
mr blur
(7,753 posts)You mediocre people don't know how lucky you are, not being burdened with a mighty intellect.
Warren Stupidity
(48,181 posts)mr blur
(7,753 posts)No, no we don't.
Ron Obvious
(6,261 posts)When I was a child, my parents and I were driving to a WW1 memorial on a mountain in France. I was in the backseat reading comic books, when our car was struck by a speed demon bank director who was trying to impress his mistress coming down, and we were knocked into the only parking spot on the entire road, inches away from the ravine. A few feet before or afterwards, and we would've been knocked right off the mountain and perished in a fiery crash. Bloody miracle, I say. Clearly god has a purpose for me.
I've no idea why I'm sharing this information, but still there it is.
FiveGoodMen
(20,018 posts)Warren Stupidity
(48,181 posts)that god hated.
trotsky
(49,533 posts)who believes god spared him and his family. Nobody wants to acknowledge that, and it's clear to see why.
nil desperandum
(654 posts)Or two apparently.....
Even allowing that some are deluded, that there were other explanations or that some were exaggerating, there are enough stories from enough reliable, sensible and sane people to conclude that something miraculous took place.
Deep thought indeed, he who is critical of those lesser, more gullible christian miracle believers using that same self proclaimed superiority to define what constitutes evidentiary statements regarding miracles....it all sounds so.........catholic...no doubt Father Dwight is convinced he can re-educate you heathen blasphemers with his mediocre powers of logic.
I was a catholic until age 16 when I did the most horrendous thing any catholic can do, I read the bible and asked questions of clergy in catechism...the catholics then asked me to leave, which I did gladly and never went back.
If YOU can't explain it.... it was a friggin' MIRACLE!
No testing or evidence required.
Which is why it's bunk.
The biggest miracle I've experienced is the utterly explainable stuff these folk believe are miracles! Like the car story.
A fundie friend of a friend told me why she KNOWS god exists: On a snowy/icy IL day in winter, her car skidded and was sliding sideways down the road toward a big concrete mailbox post. She was sure she was gonna crash into it but prayed to god and... voila! The car stopped INCHES from the post! Of course the laws of inertia had nothing to do with it. That combined with when she was at an Indian reservation where folks often found arrow heads she prayed to god "Oh, let me find one too!" and Lo! right at her feet there was one!...therefore god is real and miracles do happen.
Wow, just wow!
Personally, I'm with Picasso, who said "Everything is a miracle. It's a miracle you don't dissolve in your bath."
And let's not forget Lawrence Krauss' observation: "The universe is very old and very big and amazing coincidences happen all the time."
RebelOne
(30,947 posts)I was driving on an icy road and decided I had better slow down. But my car skidded across the road toward a concrete mail post. The car stopped just inches away from the mailbox. That was not a miracle, but just plain luck.
mr blur
(7,753 posts)but you just don't want to admit it. Hater!
onager
(9,356 posts)They knew as they went down into the next dip in the road the oncoming driver would not see them.
This must have happened around 1903, before cars were commonly equipped with headlights. Otherwise how could you NOT see an oncoming car, in spite of the high banks, hill, etc. etc.
And now...I give you another miracle story! As told to a real historian, Stephen Ambrose, and related in his 1997 book Citizen Soldiers, about the US Army in Europe during WWII:
One night near the German border, an American atheist was sharing a...yes!...foxhole with a devout Catholic.
The Germans had been shelling their positions all night, and the Catholic had been Hail Marying all night. By morning, the atheist had "had about enough of that." He got out of the foxhole to check on the rest of the platoon.
Heard a loud noise and looked back. A mortar shell had fallen right into his foxhole, gravely wounding his buddy, the good Catholic.
That poor guy sure could have used a dematerialization of the mortar shell, or having it pass thru his body etc. etc.
But then we all know in what sort of ways Gawd allegedly works...
skepticscott
(13,029 posts)the reason for the smug superiority of faitheists, agnostics and liberal believers is that they've discovered exactly, precisely, to the last neuron, how open minded to be. They're in the catbird's seat of rationality, and everyone else is either too credulous or too narrow-minded.
Must be nice.