Atheists & Agnostics
Related: About this forumI'm a feminist, and I converted to Islam
Well, lookee-here, you suspicious Western infidels. Islam is not only the religion of peace, it's the religion of feminism too!
Subject is the title of an op-ed article at CNN by Theresa Corbin, who lives in Louisiana. At age 21 and 2 months after 9/11, she converted to Islam.
The very patient Muslim lady explained that, during a time when the Western world treated women like property, Islam taught that men and women were equal in the eyes of God...
She listed right after right that women in Islam held nearly 1,250 years before women's lib was ever thought of in the West. Surprisingly, Islam turned out to be the religion that appealed to my feminist ideals...
So strictly in my Grumpy Old Atheist White Guy opinion - Corbin absorbed all the positive propaganda about Islam and ignored all the negatives.
BTW, women in ancient Egypt had all the rights mentioned above, plus others like the right to start divorce proceedings on their own initiative. No God or Allah required.
Most of all, I have faith that my fellow Americans can rise above fear and hatred and come to learn the same.
http://www.cnn.com/2014/10/14/opinion/muslim-convert-irpt/index.html
Sound of violins swelling, and the children's choir singing "Kum-ba-ya..." Surprisingly, (sarcasm) no mention of murderous Islamic fundamentalists rising above their "fear and hatred."
Hey Ms. Corbin - how about you go to Saudi Arabia and sit down alone in a café. Some of your Brothers In Islamic Feminism will be along in no time. They are called "matowa," a/k/a Religious Police.
If you're lucky, they'll just order you to move to "the women and families section" of the place. If you're unlucky you'll be jailed. And if you care to continue the debate at length, you could end up being publicly whipped. Or worse.
If I tried to describe all the routine awful treatment of women I saw in Egypt and Saudi Arabia, I'd be writing non-stop for the next 3 days. That applies to foreign women too - just Google "women tourists Egypt harassment" for an eyeful.
Daily sexual harassment is so common in Egypt, a movie got made about it: Cairo 678. Based on real events - the first sexual harassment lawsuit ever allowed into Egyptian courts.
ImdB Link: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1764141/?ref_=fn_al_tt_1
Here's a woman reviewing the movie at ImdB and putting it more eloquently than I can:
Feyza is a working-class mother struggling to pay her children's school fees and to fend off her husband's sexual advances. It soon becomes apparent that her tardiness to work is simply a result of her desperate attempts to avoid the over-crowded buses where she is routinely molested by over-eager male passengers. She soon befriends Seba, a wealthy self-defence teacher whom we learn was raped a year earlier, as well as a middle class student (Nelly) whose life-threatening assault results in a historic first legal case for sexual harassment in Egypt.
What binds these women together is a frustration at the unashamed impunity to these men's actions and society's pretend ignorance about their daily struggle to walk down Cairo's streets without harassment.
Curmudgeoness
(18,219 posts)that women in Islam held nearly 1,250 years before women's lib was ever thought of in the West.
OK, let's say all of that is true, but what have they done in the last 1,000 years? If I were to look at Islam today, I would call it anything but feminist or progressive or enlightened.
Gelliebeans
(5,043 posts)The same thing
Warpy
(111,352 posts)Once Muhammad was dead and gone, all the woman hating tribal stuff started to creep back in.
Women under Golden Age Islam could inherit and control their own property before, during, and after marriage. They were educated. They were free to come and go in a way their European sisters could only dream about. It really was a feminist paradise for its time and it's no coincidence that once the bullshit started to creep back in, the Golden Age was no more.
However, do look at their Christian sisters living under extreme Christian religious patriarchy. While these women might still have protection under the law, fear and superstition and iron fisted control prevent them from exercising any of it. See: FLDS, Quiverful.
Patriarchal religions are all bad for women and girl children. Our job is to try to keep them out of our government. That's the difference, right there. We're only good when our government remains secular.
Gelliebeans
(5,043 posts)What those examples for women's rights were? That they have been held for 1250 years? I'm curious...... Maybe that patient women could show me examples?
onager
(9,356 posts)In fact, I snipped this part from my post, since it was already too long (as usual):
I'm not really sure how much "consent" can be involved in an arranged marriage, which is still common in some Islamic countries. If your father says "You're marrying That Guy, I don't care if he's 47 years older than you," then you're marrying That Guy. AFAIK, anyway.
I also just noticed the weasel-words in the second part of the statement: "gave women the opportunity to..." OK, but taking advantage of that opportunity might be another kettle of falafel entirely.
Grumpy Old White Guy Atheist Spoil-Sporting again: my work site in Egypt was out in the country, among a string of little farm villages nobody ever heard of.
In one of those villages, an 18-yr-old woman ran off to Alexandria with her boyfriend.
Her father and brother tracked her down in the city. Begged her to come home. Assured her all was forgiven, there would be no punishment, etc. etc.
She came home. A couple months later, on the main street of the village, with many bystanders watching, her brother walked up and shot her in the head.
He was arrested for murder and sentenced to 2 years in prison, getting out early for good behavior IIRC. He went back to his village and was treated as a hero for defending the family name. The Egyptian media reported on the story, which is how I heard of it.
And that's how honor killings work, in my limited experience. Although since I'm just an ignorant Westerner, there may be some subtle feminist/humanist nuance I'm missing in the story.
To be up that close to that would of freaked me out.
Some hero her brother was
To kill a girl for marrying the wrong boy and yet they don't see the hypocrisy luring their own daughter to her death. Sick human beings.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)If I wanted to shop for a new religion Islam would be at the bottom of the list.
Call me unfashionably feministic.
Warpy
(111,352 posts)Now it's close to the bottom of my list, too.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)Mr bmus's kid has rejected christianity and is looking for another that fits.
He's considering islam because he likes its shock value, hopefully he'll grow out of this rebellious phase.
AlbertCat
(17,505 posts)... through the cloth of their burkas.
This is so ridiculous as to be insulting. My cat even got annoyed.
Equal in the eyes of some god that doesn't exist. Great! How about the eyes of the men who exclusively run the religion?
It's just ridiculous. Religion is ridiculous.
But then.... I'm a misogynist y'know. All atheist men are. Ask any feminist muslims!
EvolveOrConvolve
(6,452 posts)"I'm an African American, but I joined the Ku Klux Klan because they're a Christian organization."
Really, Islam and feminism are so at odds with one another that one has the question the sanity or intelligence of Ms. Corbin.
onager
(9,356 posts)Lebanese pop star Dana Halabi, who goes by her first name only. Born in Kuwait but currently living in Lebanon AFAIK. (ALL Arab women pop stars seem to come from Lebanon, for some reason.)
Arab feminists call Dana "the Arab Britney Spears" and "everything wrong with Arabic pop music."
The reason Islamic Fundies hate her will be obvious if you watch the video.
Culture Note #1 - notice she uses the word "Pasha" (I think!) At least in Egypt, that word can be used 2 ways: (a) as a playful joke (2) as a warning that one is acting like an entitled dick. I'm generally oblivious and even I could tell the difference. I'm guessing some Middle Eastern women use it the same way on their male partners.
Culture Note #2 - the video title is "Dou-Dou," which is not scatological. Just an Arabic nickname for "Dana:"
http://m.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)Impressive handling of the usual 'atheists like Maher are islama/christophobes who want to ban religion/ as bad as religious extremists' memes.
Still reading through it but I'm in awe of the courage it took to post that on DU and defend it without wavering from his points.
Wish I had been there to rec it.
onager
(9,356 posts)Still reading thru it myself, but some great points. I see some familiar names in that thread too.
Lordquinton
(7,886 posts)She did not. She went onto Muslim Mingle and selected a man for her self, according to her own criteria. It is misleading at best and downright dishonest and disrespectful to call what she did an "arranged marriage"