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Iraqi libraries ransacked by Islam (Original Post) Cartoonist Jan 2015 OP
The thirst for Turbineguy Jan 2015 #1
ISIS are to Islam what the Nazis are to Socialism. CJCRANE Jan 2015 #2
Not the first time Conquering Islam forces destroyed a library Lordquinton Jan 2015 #3
That may be Xian propaganda at work. onager Jan 2015 #4
From what I remember reading up on what happened to the library Lordquinton Feb 2015 #5
Christians do too, AlbertCat Feb 2015 #7
You are aware that Islamic Empire was the major force responsible for the preservation of knowledge? Exultant Democracy Feb 2015 #6
Yes, Islam introduced a lot Lordquinton Feb 2015 #8
Well it makes your comment about their history of destroying knowledge sounds pretty ignorant Exultant Democracy Feb 2015 #10
I'll bet it's not about religion. LiberalAndProud Feb 2015 #9

CJCRANE

(18,184 posts)
2. ISIS are to Islam what the Nazis are to Socialism.
Sat Jan 31, 2015, 05:09 PM
Jan 2015

It's just another iteration of nihilism. Bullies in black.

Lordquinton

(7,886 posts)
3. Not the first time Conquering Islam forces destroyed a library
Sat Jan 31, 2015, 05:16 PM
Jan 2015

the other time I'm thinking of the library was Great.

onager

(9,356 posts)
4. That may be Xian propaganda at work.
Sat Jan 31, 2015, 08:45 PM
Jan 2015

While I certainly don't want to let any religion off the hook for destroying knowledge, I'm skeptical of the claim that Muslims destroyed the Great Library of Alexandria.

It doesn't help that almost everything we know about that event is incomplete, contradictory and generally written long after the fact. And often written by people with their own religio-political axes to grind.

Why I doubt it:

1. The Muslim conqueror of Alexandria in 642 CE, Amr ibn al `Aas, supposedly wrote to a Caliph Omar about the Great Library and got the reply - "If those books are in agreement with the Quran, we have no need of them; and if these are opposed to the Quran, destroy them."

That same story, using almost exactly the same words, is told about a "Caliph Omar" concerning the Muslim invasion of Iran and the destruction of its libraries. Very suspicious, to me anyway. I have to wonder which account is true, if either. Maybe propagandists for...Certain Other Religions made up both of them. We do have to remember that the keepers of libraries for about a thousand years were Xian monks...with plenty of motive and opportunity to do some selective editing:

Ibn Khaldun, in the chapter “On the Rational Sciences and their Kinds” (al-`ulum al-‘aqliyyah wa asnafuha) of his Muqaddimah, says: “At the time of the conquest of Iran many books of that country fell into the hands of the Arabs. Sa’d ibn Abi al-Waqqas wrote to `Umar ibn al-Khattab asking his permission to have them translated for Muslims. ‘Umar wrote to him in reply that he should cast them into water, “for if what is written in those books is guidance, God has given us a better guide; and if that which is in those books is misleading, God has saved us from their evil.” Accordingly those books were cast into water or fire, and the sciences of the Iranians that were contained in them were destroyed and did not reach us.

Good scholarly article where I found that quote:

http://www.roger-pearse.com/weblog/2010/09/11/bar-hebraeus-abd-al-latif-and-the-destruction-of-the-library-of-alexandria/

2. Stories about Muslims destroying the Library all seem to have been written several centuries after the event, and mostly by early Xian writers.

3. Both Muslim and Xian writers like to point the finger at Julius Caesar for accidentally burning the Great Library. I'm very skeptical of that too. Caesar himself (or his ghostwriter Col. Hertius) wrote about that incident in The Alexandrian Wars. Caesar set fire to ships of the Egyptian Navy, tied up in Alexandria's Western Harbor. The fires spread to warehouses near the docks. Those warehouses probably held copies of scrolls already in the Library.

One way we know for sure that Caesar's fire didn't "destroy the Great Library" - people were still visiting the Library and writing about it for many years after that battle.

4. The one event that probably did the most damage to the Library is seldom mentioned - a massive tsunami that hit Alexandria on July 26, 365 CE. Just like Indonesia in 2004, Alexandria was clobbered with a wall of water that drove boats on top of 2-story buildings and changed its entire coastline.

The tsunami apparently hit hardest in the area containing the royal palace complex - which included the Great Library. The palaces and the Library would have been mostly underwater after that, and the passing years submerged that part of Alexandria even further into the sea. Archeologists didn't start uncovering the underwater ruins of the palace complex until 1995.

After the tsunami, the Library was apparently moved to a "daughter library" located in the Serapeum - the massive temple to the recently invented god Serapis. (Represented as a Greek guy with a bowl of corn on his head. Now what kind of deity is that? Certainly not a patch on Anubis, Osiris or Bastet...)

5. Then 26 years later, the event that finished off whatever was left of the Library (and one Xians are still trying to weasel out of) - the order from Coptic Christian Pope Theophilus in 391 CE to destroy all the pagan temples in Alexandria. The biggest pagan temple was the Serapeum, so it was gone. Along with everything inside it, I'd guess.

Worthless Personal Anecdote - I visited the Serapeum's underground ruins many times when I lived in Alexandria from 2005-09. There's STILL evidence of a library being there - niches in the wall where scrolls were stored, and a huge marble table. What we'd call a "conference table" today, I guess.

The Wiki article about Theophilus' tantrum contains this interesting note. Which seems like a good place to stop before I write my own frigging library in this single post:

Then (Theophilus) destroyed the Serapeum, and the bloody rites of the Mithreum he publicly caricatured; the Serapeum also he showed full of extravagant superstitions, and he had the phalli of Priapus carried through the midst of the forum.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Destruction_of_the_Library_of_Alexandria

What a dick...

Lordquinton

(7,886 posts)
5. From what I remember reading up on what happened to the library
Sun Feb 1, 2015, 12:27 AM
Feb 2015

it wasn't some single event, but happened over many years, with the islamic conquest being the final nail, so to speak.

Either way, religion has a hand, and Islam still has a thing about destroying things that aren't in agreement with it's teachings, even if it is just the extremists. Christians do too, though not as explicit. And neither of them hold a candle to the Chinese, who liked to wipe the slate clean every couple of centuries.

 

AlbertCat

(17,505 posts)
7. Christians do too,
Mon Feb 2, 2015, 12:42 PM
Feb 2015

And so do institutions that put platoons around oil fields but leave the museums unguarded.

Exultant Democracy

(6,594 posts)
6. You are aware that Islamic Empire was the major force responsible for the preservation of knowledge?
Sun Feb 1, 2015, 05:41 PM
Feb 2015

They reintroduced most of the classics to the west, far more then was available from the monks. Galen, Aristotle and Plutarch were forgotten in the west and would have been lost forever to us if not for the high value Islam placed on scholarship during the middle ages.

Exultant Democracy

(6,594 posts)
10. Well it makes your comment about their history of destroying knowledge sounds pretty ignorant
Mon Feb 2, 2015, 09:40 PM
Feb 2015

You understanding of the Renaissance and the scientific revolution also prove you to be rather fabulously ignorant, since you think most of what they introduced was just from the Greeks.

It is amazing how much people "know" here about Islam when everything so many of you say is just stupid wrong. Don't take my word for it. Marie Boas Hall was one of the foremost scholars on the scientific revolution who after finding that she was spending a considerable amount of time translating Arabic correspondence noted "At first thought, it seems unlikely that the Fellows of the Royal Society founded by the ‘new philosophy' in England in 1660 ‘for the promotion of natural knowledge', self-confessedly forward looking modernists, should have concerned themselves with Islamic learning. That they did so throws further light upon the complexities of the scientific revolution."

You ignorance on this subject means that you obviously do not understand the roots of the scientific method, why the scientific method is important and therefor the reason why the leading scientist during the scientific revolution were so dependent on the data gathered by Islamic philosophers during their experiments.

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