Atheists & Agnostics
Related: About this forumIraqi libraries ransacked by Islam
Yeah I shortened the title.
http://apnews.excite.com/article/20150131/ml--iraq-libraries_in_danger-62581f4dca.html
"These books promote infidelity and call for disobeying Allah. So they will be burned."
I'm near boiling point here. The religilous better not get near me.
Turbineguy
(37,342 posts)the Dark Ages.
CJCRANE
(18,184 posts)It's just another iteration of nihilism. Bullies in black.
Lordquinton
(7,886 posts)the other time I'm thinking of the library was Great.
onager
(9,356 posts)While I certainly don't want to let any religion off the hook for destroying knowledge, I'm skeptical of the claim that Muslims destroyed the Great Library of Alexandria.
It doesn't help that almost everything we know about that event is incomplete, contradictory and generally written long after the fact. And often written by people with their own religio-political axes to grind.
Why I doubt it:
1. The Muslim conqueror of Alexandria in 642 CE, Amr ibn al `Aas, supposedly wrote to a Caliph Omar about the Great Library and got the reply - "If those books are in agreement with the Quran, we have no need of them; and if these are opposed to the Quran, destroy them."
That same story, using almost exactly the same words, is told about a "Caliph Omar" concerning the Muslim invasion of Iran and the destruction of its libraries. Very suspicious, to me anyway. I have to wonder which account is true, if either. Maybe propagandists for...Certain Other Religions made up both of them. We do have to remember that the keepers of libraries for about a thousand years were Xian monks...with plenty of motive and opportunity to do some selective editing:
Good scholarly article where I found that quote:
http://www.roger-pearse.com/weblog/2010/09/11/bar-hebraeus-abd-al-latif-and-the-destruction-of-the-library-of-alexandria/
2. Stories about Muslims destroying the Library all seem to have been written several centuries after the event, and mostly by early Xian writers.
3. Both Muslim and Xian writers like to point the finger at Julius Caesar for accidentally burning the Great Library. I'm very skeptical of that too. Caesar himself (or his ghostwriter Col. Hertius) wrote about that incident in The Alexandrian Wars. Caesar set fire to ships of the Egyptian Navy, tied up in Alexandria's Western Harbor. The fires spread to warehouses near the docks. Those warehouses probably held copies of scrolls already in the Library.
One way we know for sure that Caesar's fire didn't "destroy the Great Library" - people were still visiting the Library and writing about it for many years after that battle.
4. The one event that probably did the most damage to the Library is seldom mentioned - a massive tsunami that hit Alexandria on July 26, 365 CE. Just like Indonesia in 2004, Alexandria was clobbered with a wall of water that drove boats on top of 2-story buildings and changed its entire coastline.
The tsunami apparently hit hardest in the area containing the royal palace complex - which included the Great Library. The palaces and the Library would have been mostly underwater after that, and the passing years submerged that part of Alexandria even further into the sea. Archeologists didn't start uncovering the underwater ruins of the palace complex until 1995.
After the tsunami, the Library was apparently moved to a "daughter library" located in the Serapeum - the massive temple to the recently invented god Serapis. (Represented as a Greek guy with a bowl of corn on his head. Now what kind of deity is that? Certainly not a patch on Anubis, Osiris or Bastet...)
5. Then 26 years later, the event that finished off whatever was left of the Library (and one Xians are still trying to weasel out of) - the order from Coptic Christian Pope Theophilus in 391 CE to destroy all the pagan temples in Alexandria. The biggest pagan temple was the Serapeum, so it was gone. Along with everything inside it, I'd guess.
Worthless Personal Anecdote - I visited the Serapeum's underground ruins many times when I lived in Alexandria from 2005-09. There's STILL evidence of a library being there - niches in the wall where scrolls were stored, and a huge marble table. What we'd call a "conference table" today, I guess.
The Wiki article about Theophilus' tantrum contains this interesting note. Which seems like a good place to stop before I write my own frigging library in this single post:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Destruction_of_the_Library_of_Alexandria
What a dick...
Lordquinton
(7,886 posts)it wasn't some single event, but happened over many years, with the islamic conquest being the final nail, so to speak.
Either way, religion has a hand, and Islam still has a thing about destroying things that aren't in agreement with it's teachings, even if it is just the extremists. Christians do too, though not as explicit. And neither of them hold a candle to the Chinese, who liked to wipe the slate clean every couple of centuries.
AlbertCat
(17,505 posts)And so do institutions that put platoons around oil fields but leave the museums unguarded.
Exultant Democracy
(6,594 posts)They reintroduced most of the classics to the west, far more then was available from the monks. Galen, Aristotle and Plutarch were forgotten in the west and would have been lost forever to us if not for the high value Islam placed on scholarship during the middle ages.
Lordquinton
(7,886 posts)most that they captured from the greeks they invaded.
Exultant Democracy
(6,594 posts)You understanding of the Renaissance and the scientific revolution also prove you to be rather fabulously ignorant, since you think most of what they introduced was just from the Greeks.
It is amazing how much people "know" here about Islam when everything so many of you say is just stupid wrong. Don't take my word for it. Marie Boas Hall was one of the foremost scholars on the scientific revolution who after finding that she was spending a considerable amount of time translating Arabic correspondence noted "At first thought, it seems unlikely that the Fellows of the Royal Society founded by the new philosophy' in England in 1660 for the promotion of natural knowledge', self-confessedly forward looking modernists, should have concerned themselves with Islamic learning. That they did so throws further light upon the complexities of the scientific revolution."
You ignorance on this subject means that you obviously do not understand the roots of the scientific method, why the scientific method is important and therefor the reason why the leading scientist during the scientific revolution were so dependent on the data gathered by Islamic philosophers during their experiments.
LiberalAndProud
(12,799 posts)at all.
edit: I forgot this