Atheists & Agnostics
Related: About this forumThis is nice. Duck Dynasty "star" claims the buybull is needed to tell right from wrong.
Uses "atheist" example:
The story begins with Robertson challenging his audience to make a bet with him: 'Two guys break into an atheist's home. He has a little atheist wife and two little atheist daughters. Two guys break into his home and tie him up in a chair and gag him.'
With the unsettling scene set, Robertson carried on with his morality tale.
'Then they take his two daughters in front of him and rape both of them and then shoot them, and they take his wife and then decapitate her head off in front of him and then they can look at him and say, 'Isn't it great that I don't have to worry about being judged? Isn't it great that there's nothing wrong with this?'' Robertson said. 'There's no right or wrong, now, is it dude?''
To finish off his point and leave his audience in no doubt about his point, Robertson then took relish in describing a castration.
'Then you take a sharp knife and take his manhood and hold it in front of him and say, 'Wouldn't it be something if there was something wrong with this? But you're the one who says there is no God, there's no right, there's no wrong, so we're just having fun. We're sick in the head, have a nice day.'
his of course is just the latest in a long ling of controversial comments the Duck Dynasty star has made.
To finish off his modern-day parable, Robertson then said, 'If it happened to them, they probably would say, 'Something about this just ain't right.'
On edit: Link - http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3011807/Duck-Dynasty-s-Phil-Robertson-gives-shocking-speech-religious-meeting-using-rape-murder-child-rape-castration-criticize-atheists.html
Stuckinthebush
(10,847 posts)Reading between the lines Mr. Birdbrain is basically saying that if not for his religious convictions then HE would be a murderer and rapist. Frightening.
PassingFair
(22,434 posts)Now I KNOW they are.
Check out the video....people FLOCKING to hear him spew this rot.
Curmudgeoness
(18,219 posts)Every time I see where some pious asshole says something like this, I think that it means they are only restrained by their belief in God.
I have even been asked in discussions about my atheism, "why do you still live a decent life?" WTF! My answer is "because it is the right thing to do, why would I be an asshole to others just because there is no god?" Amazing.
Response to Stuckinthebush (Reply #1)
Pacifist Patriot This message was self-deleted by its author.
Mariana
(14,860 posts)if they're raped, tortured, murdered, etc.
trotsky
(49,533 posts)Possibly the scariest part of his scary religious rant.
Stuckinthebush
(10,847 posts)and bounce in his step thinking of this gruesome scenario. Very disturbing.
Mariana
(14,860 posts)that he was getting aroused.
AlbertCat
(17,505 posts)What do you expect from a 14 year old boy?
mr blur
(7,753 posts)So far the religionistas contributing to the discussion are conspicuous by their absence.
PassingFair
(22,434 posts)Turned my stomach!!!
trotsky
(49,533 posts)A performance. Not really a Christian. Not really a believer. Nothing to see here, move along.
Meanwhile, an awkward tweet from Richard Dawkins proves atheists have a sexism problem.
haikugal
(6,476 posts)That thinks 13 or 14 is the right age for a wife..so you can train them up. Palin loves this guy and his BS..she has a young daughter too...she has no common sense. These people are dangerous.
PassingFair
(22,434 posts)Absolutely repulsive on every level.
greendog
(3,127 posts)...is that this occurred in a room full of good Christian folks who giggled along and continued to listen to the rest of his talk. No one objected. No one booed. No one walked out.
When it was all over there was no demand for an apology or explanation from the organizers nor did the organizers offer an apology on their own.
And it's even crazier that most of the media reports focused on the words coming out of Robertson's mouth as if they occurred in an empty room.
Why weren't the attendee's and organizers interviewed for the media reports?
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)And how many "good" christians will ask him to speak at future events?
LiberalAndProud
(12,799 posts)I'm putting Duck Dynasty back on my auto-trash list. There was a good reason for it.
PeaceNikki
(27,985 posts)Dear Mr. Robertson,
Some of my fans made me aware of your comments at the recent prayer breakfast in Vero Beach, FL. Of course, I would never think that you (or the vast majority of Christians) are personally advocating for the torture, rape, murder and dismemberment of atheists, but thats not what concerned me about your latest speech. What bothered me was your use of a one-way megaphone to disseminate more zingers of willful ignorance to audiences that rarely venture outside the limiting confines of like-minded rallies, blogs, churches, and news sites to ever experience the true joys of thinking (critically) for themselves. It is in this spirit, that Ill offer my own tiny voice from the wilderness should any of your fans care to read what a mere man without a reality show has to say about anything.
In short, Im stuck by the fact that you just admitted publicly that if it were not for your religion, you would be a wife-murdering child-rapist who cuts peoples penises off to have fun. Well then, thank God for your religion keeping us all safe please never renounce your faith!
Lets start at the very beginning of your tale. Who are these assailants that break into my home? Are they atheists or Christians? After all, according to the United States Federal Bureau of Prisons, less than one-tenth of one percent of inmates identify themselves as atheists 0.07%. What this means is that in your parable, there is a 99.93% chance that the assailants would be people of faith. Awkward ? (Of course, this isnt the only clue as to faith of your hypothetical psychopaths.)
But why? Rape, murder, torture, and decapitation all for the sake of proving a point to someone of a different belief system.
Where would you get such awful ideas? Maybe from the Bible?
Moving on, two little atheist daughters, Id simply suggest that, since no ages are given, its possible that these children havent yet reached an age where they have made up their own minds about God and religion. That is to say, without the incessant childhood indoctrination through circumcision, baptism, Sunday school, kiddie communion, and Good News Clubs all children ushered into a world without the pervasive oppression of a familys chosen religion would naturally be atheists until proven otherwise. But, for the sake of argument, lets say these girls are 10 and 12 years old clearly old enough to know better and have chosen to simply not believe in gods for which they see no proof. After all, they were probably taunting their filthy secular flesh around, and all they had it coming, right? I mean, I imagine thats what was going on with Righteous Lots daughters
Aside from the explicit creepiness of your fantasy parable, I couldnt help but notice that your understanding of atheism appears to be on par with your understanding of the Bible. So, lets explore a little of each, shall we?
and then they can look at him and say, Isnt it great that I dont have to worry about being judged? Isnt it great that theres nothing wrong with this? Theres no right or wrong, now, is it dude? Uhm, thats not how atheism works. Atheism isnt a set of moral values it is simply the lack of belief in god(s). Period.
However, its becoming awkwardly clear that the assailants in your fantasy parable are Christian. After all, why would an atheist rape, torture, murder and taunt another atheist over religious philosophies that neither of them agree with? Hypothetical, rhetorical, or otherwise, your parable does a good job of illustrating the bullying tactics of a religious majority, not the other way around. The simple fact of the matter is, atheists dont need a 2,000-5,000 year old book to tell them that murder and rape of children is wrong. But, lets look at what the Bible says about raping children. Lets see is it in the Ten Commandments? Nope. Does Jesus forbid the practice? Not really In fact, he reminds us in Matthew 5:18-19 that until heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the Law So, lets look at one of the laws from your Good Book, Phil.
But, moving on, Then you take a sharp knife and take his manhood and hold it in front of him I couldnt help but notice that you changed the voice of your from they to you. Its no longer about them doing unspeakable deeds, but clearly about you imagining doing them yourself? What is it with your obsession with other peoples manhood? Since we are talking about cutting penises, I feel it would be appropriate to return to the Bibles guidance on this question
Uhm... I would have settled for a handshake to agree to the covenant, but whatevs.
Ahhh, I see So, you want to take my manhood in your hand as a way of protecting you from the Lord? Got it (more)
All that said, Phil what was most surprising to me was your complete lack of understanding of judgment and salvation according to your own holy texts. After all, since these hypothetical assailants are clearly Christian, would they not be welcomed into heaven with open arms as long as they confessed their sins and believe in Jesus? In fact, they would Jesus is quite explicit in Matthew 12:31, Therefore I tell you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven, except for blasphemy against the Spirit it will never be forgiven. This is one of the greatest sales tools Christianity has used throughout the centuries seek and ye shall find, ask and ye shall be forgiven. The only difference between atheists in your fantasy parable and Christians is that atheists dont have the luxury of playing get out of jail free card anytime they do something wrong. Atheists understand the concept of personal responsibility without the dangling carrot of vicarious redemption through human sacrifice, the fear of hell, or the promise of divine rewards. You want to talk about moral relativism? Lets look at the Bible once again
Moral relativism...
Yes, Phil according to the Bible, Heaven is completely filled with rapists, murderers, and junk-cutters while hell is inhabited by people whos greatest sin was to accidentally yell god damnit when they smashed their thumb with a hammer while building a free shelter for the homeless. So, congratulations, Mr. Robertson enjoy your time in heaven! Unfortunately there wont be any atheists up there for you and your friends to fantasize about raping, decapitating, and castrating. Well all be in hell, treating one another with dignity and respect without needing the fear of God or an ancient book to compel us to do so. In fact, free will is our only choice. Remind me of your philosophy, again?
So inspiring, this Jesus.
Such wonderful words to live by so inspiring, so hope-filled. (more )
[EDIT: Sadly, the more I think about it, it would be quite easy to alter your hypothetical story with just a couple of words and be supported Biblically as Ill add below ]
Then they take his two daughters in front of him and rape both of them and then shoot them, and they take his wife and then decapitate her head off in front of him, and then they can look at him and say, Isnt it great that we dont have to worry about going to hell for our crimes? Isnt it great that these sins are no worse that cheating on a math test in the eyes of the Lord? Isnt it great that well be forgiven by God, and if youre a true Christian, youll need to forgive us as well, dude?
Then you take a sharp knife and take his manhood and hold it in front of him and say, Wouldnt it be something if [there] if we were actually held accountable for our actions and couldnt blame demons or the devil? But God works in mysterious ways, right? Sure, theres right and wrong, but it doesnt matter. God will forgive us as long as we repent and trust our lord and savior, Jesus Christ. Were not perfect, just forgiven!
Ugh . now Im just sad and want to give you a hug, Phil. May your children never be raped, may your wife never be decapitated, and may your manhood never be severed. I wish you nothing but peace and happiness.
Cheers,
Horus Gilgamesh, The Happy Heretic (aka able to choose)
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)I love the pictures, makes it easy to understand.
Did you read the comments? Hilarious!
Oh please! What a cry baby. A Christian makes some comments that offend you so write a fourty page post to attack him for it? Oh boo-hoo, you babies. How would you like it if we spent all of our time attacking you because of your beliefs? Oh wait, you dont have any hahahahaa! Get a fucking life
This makes me sick. I cant beieve that we live in a day and age where you can hostiley attack someone like this. I hope Pete Robinson sues you for spreading these lies. Of course it is God you should really be worried about!
While I think Phil made some mistakes in his storytelling, the point is valid. When something bad happens to an atheist, who can they call on for help? Jesus would never let something like this happen to his flock in the first place. Im pretty sure thats what Phil was trying to say.
Awesome website, ("Don't Blame Me, It's In The Bible!" , many thanks!
AlbertCat
(17,505 posts)You religious guys call Jesus.
I'll call 911.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)they wouldn't need help because Jesus would never let something like this happen to his flock in the first place.
Jesus only lets those kinds of things happen to other people...
Mariana
(14,860 posts)to his flock in the first place, says Allison. That's interesting.
So, am I to gather that Allison believes that Christians are never, ever the victims of violent acts? All those stories of persecution of the early Christians are bullshit, then? It must never have happened, since "Jesus would never let something like this happen to his flock in the first place."
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)Sometimes I can guess how they come to their conclusions but in this case I haven't the foggiest.
It sounds like something Sarah Palin would say.
LiberalAndProud
(12,799 posts)1. I believe in Jesus.
2. My family has never been tortured, raped and murdered.
3. That's because I believe in Jesus.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)You really know your stuff.
The next time I need a translator I hope it's okay to call on you.
LiberalAndProud
(12,799 posts)Early Christians ... probably not so much fed to the lions as we have been led to believe.
http://www.salon.com/2013/02/24/the_myth_of_persecution_early_christians_werent_persecuted/
Oops. Meant to reply to Mariana. Sorry.
Mariana
(14,860 posts)1. The early Christians believed in Jesus.
2. The early Christians were fed to lions, burned, crucified, etc.
3. That's because they believed in Jesus.
LiberalAndProud
(12,799 posts)Jesus loves me more.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)Like he did when he let his kid be tortured.
Mariana
(14,860 posts)if you ask them direct questions about what they say they believe. I would bet that Allison really does believe that (real) Christians have been tortured and murdered for their beliefs, and that "Jesus would never let something like this happen to his flock in the first place." I can just imagine her reaction if someone asked her how, exactly, she can believe both of these things at the same time.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)"hostiley" thanks Gracie) and to "Get a fucking life" thanks Derrick).
Such christian sentiments, we can only aspire to be as loving and gentle as Jesus' followers.
onager
(9,356 posts)From memory, a few recent newspaper stories from here in Upstate SC. One of the most Xian places on Earth, a veritable Disney World of that old-time religion...
1. This Jesus-besotted state just recently lost its first-place position...for number of women killed by domestic violence. Most often, shot or beaten to death by the men they live with. The state legislature is trying to pass a law banning DV offenders from owning guns for 5 years after their criminal convictions. Good luck with that, guns are more sacred than the 10 Commandments here.
2. Teen girl recently survived a horrible car wreck, just barely and after hours of emergency treatment. Victim and family called it a "miracle from Gawd." The same crash killed her sister and 2 of her cousins. No miracle for them, I guess. And no thanks to the medical professionals who treated her. Jebus done it all!
3. Former president of Bob Jones Univ. apologized for saying gays should be stoned to death. No, REALLY stoned. With rocks. Hey, it was a long time ago and he's REALLY sorry. So everything is OK now.
4. No correlation found between the religiosity of an area and even basic human manners and decency. But I guess we already knew that. Yesterday a local meth-head couple got arrested after someone saw the woman "defecating in a bank parking lot." I'm hoping her lawyer defends that as a political statement about Too Big To Fail financial institutions.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)I'm sure you had a good reason to move back but speaking from experience, the culture shock can be fatal. DU is the only reason I'm still here today - literally. The idea of facing life in the bible belt without friends is unbearable.
Personally I'm really looking forward to tornado season, 2 years ago we had an EF3 touch down 1/2 mile north of here. This was on a sunny day with no watches or warnings, a super cell formed within minutes and spawned a huge wedge tornado. I couldn't believe my eyes. One minute I'm taking pictures of butterflies in wheat fields and the next it's death and destruction.
We must have coffee.