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NeoGreen

(4,031 posts)
Fri Apr 24, 2015, 08:45 AM Apr 2015

Statutory Spiritualism…

(thinking out loud here, just for the sake of discussion)

... recently, I found myself ruminating on an intriguing legal concept: Statutory Spiritualism.

The concept was formed from a conflation of Dawkin's meme that children should not be viewed or labeled by the religion of their parents any more than they should be labeled by their parent political views and the idea that children cannot legally consent to some actions that are (universally?) reserved for adults only.

While it is perfectly acceptable, and somewhat routine, for an adult to reject a particular political or religious point of view or to switch to a different version, as they please, children do not have that luxury. They are forced to conform to the wishes and conventions (against their will?) of their adult parents/guardians. How many children change or switch or drop their parent-imposed religion upon reaching adulthood? How many children are directly harmed either emotionally or physically by the religion of their parents?

So why should society not create Statutory Spiritualism laws? Make it a societal requirement that only adults shall be subject to the spirituality of their choice. Is it immoral/unethical to force a child into the religion of their parents? There are many adult only actions/options where it would be immoral/unethical/illegal to force a child to participate in, so why not this?

Extending the idea being that individuals under the age of the majority are incapable (within a legal framework) of providing consent for various "adult" activities, sometimes illegal even with parental/guardian approval, to include the realm of spirituality.

Thoughts/Comments?

10 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Statutory Spiritualism… (Original Post) NeoGreen Apr 2015 OP
Well, one big thing getting in the way bvf Apr 2015 #1
Because you have idiots that will argue that you therefore can't "indoctrinate" your kids into math, trotsky Apr 2015 #2
No doubt... NeoGreen Apr 2015 #3
"show the harm" trotsky Apr 2015 #4
One look at the anxiety Lordquinton Apr 2015 #9
As distasteful nil desperandum Apr 2015 #5
I don't see how you could keep parents from teaching their religion Curmudgeoness Apr 2015 #6
No. LiberalAndProud Apr 2015 #7
Thanks for all the replies... NeoGreen Apr 2015 #8
We should be focusing on letting the teachers teach Lordquinton Apr 2015 #10
 

bvf

(6,604 posts)
1. Well, one big thing getting in the way
Fri Apr 24, 2015, 08:57 AM
Apr 2015

of this intriguing idea would be the question of schooling.

trotsky

(49,533 posts)
2. Because you have idiots that will argue that you therefore can't "indoctrinate" your kids into math,
Fri Apr 24, 2015, 08:58 AM
Apr 2015

or science. Bringing up children to believe a religion uncritically is unfortunate, but the bottom line is, there would be no way to enforce a law like that. It just needs to be something that we as a society learn to accept over time as part of a new norm.

The better angle, I think, is to pursue educational standards that encourage critical thinking, empowering children with the tools to reject their religion when they reach an age where they can do so.

NeoGreen

(4,031 posts)
3. No doubt...
Fri Apr 24, 2015, 09:15 AM
Apr 2015

...enforcement would be "problematic" and I have not contemplated even the simplest response to that question.

But in response to the idea that Math and Science would be "lumped in", I would ask, show the harm.

Easy enough to do with enforced spirituality, I would presume, not so much with general education.

trotsky

(49,533 posts)
4. "show the harm"
Fri Apr 24, 2015, 09:43 AM
Apr 2015

Very problematic. There is a particularly prolific scolder in another group here on DU who loves to think the world is so nice and black and white where every religious belief is fine as long as it doesn't "harm." And c'mon you guys, can't you just leave religion alone?

But it's not that simple. Who gets to define "harm"? After all, the anti-choicers think that abortion murders a human being. Clearly they would define abortion as harm! So should abortion be illegal? Are religious beliefs that accept abortion causing harm?

nil desperandum

(654 posts)
5. As distasteful
Fri Apr 24, 2015, 10:46 AM
Apr 2015

as most religion is there is no acceptable method for this to be implemented without a direct assault on yet another of our Bill of Rights Protections.

Parents indoctrinate their children all the time including politically, some kids rebel away to be sure but others find their parents politics to be quite acceptable regardless of which side of the aisle they are on.

I do not believe this is appropriate for our legal system any more than I believe I need the government's instructions on a proper way to raise children.

My children attended college, served their nation, one runs his own business and the other is a senior executive in her company all without any government assistance in protecting their spirituality or lack thereof. The government actually teaching science and not religion would be a great start, this idiotic intelligent design should be eliminated immediately. Government teaches that which can be proven with evidence, parents teach the other stuff for good or ill, that's how it should be in my opinion. YMMV as it most certainly should.

Curmudgeoness

(18,219 posts)
6. I don't see how you could keep parents from teaching their religion
Fri Apr 24, 2015, 02:11 PM
Apr 2015

to their children. Even if you were to make it "illegal", this would be done behind closed doors. It actually has been done in the past with Jews who were so persecuted that they "converted" to Catholicism to survive, but still kept the Jewish traditions alive in their homes. In fact, persecution is probably the best way to make people stick closer to their religion.

In the church that I was raised, you were not baptized until you were 13---the age of consent to the church. Other sects, like the Amish, actually do what you are suggesting in spirit.....the children are not members of the church until they reach adulthood and can decide whether they want to stay or not.

But making this a statutory offense would open a can of worms that no one wants to see opened. It would just give the religious more of a cause.

LiberalAndProud

(12,799 posts)
7. No.
Fri Apr 24, 2015, 02:24 PM
Apr 2015

There is a wall between state and religion that must be upheld. Parenting choices in things religious should be left on the other side of that wall, as unfortunate as that choice may be for the indoctrinated child.

NeoGreen

(4,031 posts)
8. Thanks for all the replies...
Fri Apr 24, 2015, 03:22 PM
Apr 2015

...and commentary.

Much appreciated critique of my morning commute derived thought of the day...

Which obviously needs some work, if not proper filing into the trash can.

Lordquinton

(7,886 posts)
10. We should be focusing on letting the teachers teach
Fri Apr 24, 2015, 03:46 PM
Apr 2015

and building critical thinking and problem solving skills in schools, instead of just being forced babysitters between tests. That will help this problem, and build a more well rounded citizenry.

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