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defacto7

(13,485 posts)
Sun Aug 26, 2018, 04:42 PM Aug 2018

Experiencing the Presence of God

Last edited Sun Aug 26, 2018, 06:55 PM - Edit history (1)

Have you ever felt the extatic immeasurable sense of oneness with our creator and the universe? I have. I felt it hiking the peaks of the Rockies in '74. I felt it diving in the amazingly clear waters of Hawai'i in 77'. I felt it standing on the summit of Mt. Ranier in 80'. I felt it at the moment each of my children were born. I felt it the moment my father died. You know what's so incredible about this out of body feeling? It's that our human brain has evolved to feel wonder, empathy and to seek the frontiers of our universe with emotion and reverence. Ironically, it's done so in spite of our ancient clan mentality that seeks to kill and destroy for the survival of the few.

Unfortunately, not all humans have been able to shake the ancient ways as those ways have become obsolete. Mixing early human survival, fear and anihilation of competition with more recent self-awareness and wonder has been a disastrous combination culminating in the worship of myth to the exclusion of reason and reality. Hopefully there's time left for humanity as many of us have decided to make the earth with all its natural beauty, intuition and warnings insignificant. In this final battle if we persist in fighting our existential mother, we will lose. The earth will wisk us out of existence as if we had never been; it will heal and continue.

This leads me to name God. It's none other than the physics of the universe and importantly the earth from which we evolved. It's not a mind or a being, it's greater than that. It's the perfect intellect of time, physics, matter and its creation. It doesn't demand worship, only respect. It doesn't demand immediacy but it won't be ignored.

D7

On edit hopefully for clarity:

Do theists have these esoteric, existential moments and call it God? There's a billboard that says, "There's evidence for God." and it shows a cute little baby, how nice, although it's a logical fallacy since babies come from a natural evolutionary process called sex and don't require a supernatural being. I don't think having prejudicial feelings toward a word because of how it's used is very useful. If we don't redefine the words they use in a way that leads to a reasonable conclusion, this kind of illogical thinking will persist memetically as it has for centuries, because words like God are not going to go away for a long long time.

26 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Experiencing the Presence of God (Original Post) defacto7 Aug 2018 OP
Have I ever felt oneness with our creator? Croney Aug 2018 #1
You haven't felt oneness with the natural forces defacto7 Aug 2018 #5
You seem to be sort of a pantheist. Voltaire2 Aug 2018 #9
More of an ignostic. It's the semantics. defacto7 Aug 2018 #11
I'm a solotarian SCantiGOP Aug 2018 #14
Damn, I've been left behind. defacto7 Aug 2018 #15
Sounds like you had some endorphins kick in. bitterross Aug 2018 #2
I agree. I don't ascribe it to any higher being... defacto7 Aug 2018 #4
Sorry re my post below. Duppers Aug 2018 #7
Sorry for the confusion and I don't mind your comment. defacto7 Aug 2018 #13
I added an edit. Hopefully it makes the point more clear. defacto7 Aug 2018 #18
Higher power still reeks of determinism bitterross Aug 2018 #8
I agree with your point of view. defacto7 Aug 2018 #12
Yes. mia Aug 2018 #3
Thank you for the reply, mia defacto7 Aug 2018 #19
You are not saying there's an entity Duppers Aug 2018 #6
I agree with you completely defacto7 Aug 2018 #10
Might you be fluent in more languages than just English? Croney Aug 2018 #16
Colloquial, who knows. Just bad grammar. defacto7 Aug 2018 #17
I have felt a deep awe RussBLib Aug 2018 #20
I've never experienced mind altering drugs.. defacto7 Aug 2018 #21
If it's all about feeling the presence, you should join the Hawaiians and worship Pele... Towlie Aug 2018 #22
Why? and of course. defacto7 Aug 2018 #23
Yes, I read your essay. It's typical and easy to refute with commonly known quotes. Towlie Aug 2018 #24
If that's how you read it, I'm sorry. defacto7 Aug 2018 #25
I have Blind Faith edhopper Aug 2018 #26

defacto7

(13,485 posts)
5. You haven't felt oneness with the natural forces
Sun Aug 26, 2018, 05:08 PM
Aug 2018

that created us... the earth, physics, time, through evolution? I am also atheist. It's a definition thing.

Voltaire2

(13,167 posts)
9. You seem to be sort of a pantheist.
Sun Aug 26, 2018, 05:31 PM
Aug 2018

With a bit of Gaia worship tossed in. You might also be an atheist if it is just “awe” you are talking about and not gods.

defacto7

(13,485 posts)
11. More of an ignostic. It's the semantics.
Sun Aug 26, 2018, 05:42 PM
Aug 2018

I am as atheist as one can be and not be illogical. No evidence, no supernatural being. If the evidence changes, I'll change. The ignostic in me says the word god has never properly been defined.

SCantiGOP

(13,873 posts)
14. I'm a solotarian
Sun Aug 26, 2018, 06:06 PM
Aug 2018

Won't let anyone else in my religion, it's just for me. So I'll be the only one in my heaven.

 

bitterross

(4,066 posts)
2. Sounds like you had some endorphins kick in.
Sun Aug 26, 2018, 04:48 PM
Aug 2018

Perfectly natural side-effect of the events you mention. Our brains are capable of many things. Releasing endorphins at these special moments sounds like the most likely cause of your euphoric reactions.

I can't say I'd ascribe it to any higher power.

defacto7

(13,485 posts)
4. I agree. I don't ascribe it to any higher being...
Sun Aug 26, 2018, 05:00 PM
Aug 2018

I just redefine the term as a point of view. You have to admit that humans are not more than a blip in earth's history let alone the universe. That leaves everything a higher power ultimately as we hobble through a point in time.

Duppers

(28,127 posts)
7. Sorry re my post below.
Sun Aug 26, 2018, 05:22 PM
Aug 2018

I had not read this one.

Would you consider editing your OP a bit so that it's not so confusing?

Thanks.

defacto7

(13,485 posts)
13. Sorry for the confusion and I don't mind your comment.
Sun Aug 26, 2018, 05:59 PM
Aug 2018

If I failed to make my point in the OP I'll just take my lumps. But I kind of like it as is. I'll look it over again.

 

bitterross

(4,066 posts)
8. Higher power still reeks of determinism
Sun Aug 26, 2018, 05:23 PM
Aug 2018

I'm quite comfortable in my belief that everything is probabilistic and random. Contemplating a higher power leans toward some guided, deterministic view that just isn't realistic.

defacto7

(13,485 posts)
12. I agree with your point of view.
Sun Aug 26, 2018, 05:55 PM
Aug 2018

I don’t ascribe to anything deterministic. 12VDC at 10 amps is a higher power than 6VDC at 1 amp. That's my only analogical definition of higher power. As I was trying to allude in the op, there is no higher being. Maybe I failed in the attempt but it was a creative way to deal with feeling compared to reason.

Duppers

(28,127 posts)
6. You are not saying there's an entity
Sun Aug 26, 2018, 05:17 PM
Aug 2018

outside of your (our) brain, right?

I carefully reread your post because it can be a bit confusing because of your use of the word god, especially your capitalization of that word.

Yes, I have. I've been "there," in that mental place. But in no way do I believed in god or a god of any kind but I can understand how some people can identify their very intense existential feelings with what they perceive as some kind of supernatural force. There is no supernatural anything. There is only nature, which includes the chemistry of our brains which can imbue us with all kinds of feelings.

Please don't confuse that feeling or use the word god to describe it.

defacto7

(13,485 posts)
10. I agree with you completely
Sun Aug 26, 2018, 05:36 PM
Aug 2018

But the word god is a word. I'm redefining it. If someone attributes god to a supernatural being, I'm trying to show that their sense of awe is natural within our own brain as their mind tries to define what they feel and observe... as it tries to make symmetry out of chaos.
You may be right about capitalization but I don’t have much fear for words. It's still not illogical in a creative sense. Anyway, theists who read this with a capital G might be confused just a little; maybe it will help.

Croney

(4,670 posts)
16. Might you be fluent in more languages than just English?
Sun Aug 26, 2018, 06:12 PM
Aug 2018

I ask because a phrase like "...I don't have much fear for words" might have lost a bit of meaning in translation.

defacto7

(13,485 posts)
17. Colloquial, who knows. Just bad grammar.
Sun Aug 26, 2018, 07:02 PM
Aug 2018

I don't fear words... I have no fear of words... I don't distance myself from using words... whatever works.

RussBLib

(9,036 posts)
20. I have felt a deep awe
Sun Aug 26, 2018, 11:13 PM
Aug 2018

Usually when seeing a really beautiful place. It's easy to feel awe while in the outdoors. But I attribute it to nature. The earth is nature and the earth is alive.

While on LSD I have felt strong sensations of oneness with the universe. It's been a long while since I've had any, but I can still remember the feelings.

I would love to experience ayahuasca, but not having any luck so far.

Consuming mind-altering substances is as old as the hills and probably what prompted the bible in the first place.

defacto7

(13,485 posts)
21. I've never experienced mind altering drugs..
Mon Aug 27, 2018, 12:55 AM
Aug 2018

but oh, I have been tempted. Had something been available to me at certain times in my life I gladly would have indulged.

Towlie

(5,328 posts)
22. If it's all about feeling the presence, you should join the Hawaiians and worship Pele...
Wed Aug 29, 2018, 11:52 AM
Aug 2018

... because they can at least see their deity!

Seriously,

Isn't it enough to see that a garden is beautiful without having to believe that there are fairies at the bottom of it too? -- Douglas Adams



Towlie

(5,328 posts)
24. Yes, I read your essay. It's typical and easy to refute with commonly known quotes.
Thu Aug 30, 2018, 10:34 AM
Aug 2018

You wrote this:

This leads me to name God. It's none other than the physics of the universe and importantly the earth from which we evolved. It's not a mind or a being, it's greater than that. It's the perfect intellect of time, physics, matter and its creation. It doesn't demand worship, only respect. It doesn't demand immediacy but it won't be ignored.

Here's your response:

“Some people have views of God that are so broad and flexible that it is inevitable that they will find God wherever they look for him. One hears it said that 'God is the ultimate' or 'God is our better nature' or 'God is the universe.' Of course, like any other word, the word 'God' can be given any meaning we like. If you want to say that 'God is energy,' then you can find God in a lump of coal.” -- Steven Weinberg

defacto7

(13,485 posts)
25. If that's how you read it, I'm sorry.
Thu Aug 30, 2018, 02:42 PM
Aug 2018

If you carry preconceived notions of the definition into it, ones that make you uncomfortable, your likely to read into it what you wish and miss the point while you're arguing a point that's not there. It is confusing.

You didn’t refute anything, just read your own bias into it. I'm no pantheist. I'm just trying my hand at rearranging a concept that won't go away by reconnecting it with the human perceptions from which it likely evolved in the first place then calling it what it really is. I'm only doing this exercise because the word god won't go away, unfortunately.

Thanks for the reply.

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