Atheists & Agnostics

Duppers

(28,125 posts) Sat Oct 5, 2019, 03:20 AM Oct 2019

The inherent cruelty of nature

"I have told this to few people, gentlemen, and I suspect never will again, but one day when I was a young boy on holiday in Uberwald I was walking along the bank of a stream when I saw a mother otter with her cubs. A very endearing sight, I'm sure you will agree, and even as I watched, the mother otter dived into the water and came up with a plump salmon, which she subdued and dragged onto a half-submerged log. As she ate it, while of course it was still alive, the body split, and I remember to this day the sweet pinkness of its roes as they spilled out, much to the delight of the baby otters who scrambled over themselves to feed on the delicacy. One of nature's wonders, gentlemen: mother and children dining upon mother and children. And that's when I first learned about evil. It is built into the very nature of the universe. Every world spins in pain. If there is any kind of supreme being, I told myself, it is up to all of us to become his moral superior."

- Terry Pratchett in "Unseen Academical"

I didn't know quite where to post this but knew folks who occasionally read here might also appreciate my aversion to both deities and predation, no matter the beast - human or otherwise.
Here, Sir Terence Pratchett decries them both.

12 replies

= new reply since forum marked as read

Highlight:

The inherent cruelty of nature (Original Post) Duppers Oct 2019 OP

That's not evil Cartoonist Oct 2019 #1

Yeah, except humans dine on other humans too Auggie Oct 2019 #3

Language needs polar opposites to define words. safeinOhio Oct 2019 #2

A reminder of a definition of "evil" Duppers Oct 2019 #4

This reminds me of my own response to a blog post DavidDvorkin Oct 2019 #5

Nature at it's best, the ever fragile food chain mountain grammy Oct 2019 #6

Mother and children dining upon mother and children Farmer-Rick Oct 2019 #7

You understand. If there were a "god." Duppers Oct 2019 #8

True. Farmer-Rick Oct 2019 #9

Same as it ever was.... Bayard Oct 2019 #10

+100 Duppers Jan 2020 #11

nature is not cruel.. nature is not kind... uriel1972 Jan 2020 #12

Cartoonist

(7,317 posts)

1. That's not evil

Reply to Duppers (Original post)

Sat Oct 5, 2019, 05:28 AM

Oct 2019

That's life. That's nature. He needs to accept that in a positive manner rather than condemn all life as evil. Fuck that shit.

Auggie

(31,173 posts)

3. Yeah, except humans dine on other humans too

Reply to Cartoonist (Reply #1)

Sat Oct 5, 2019, 06:04 AM

Oct 2019

Not literally, of course, although it has happened in our history.

I'm referring to humans who steal, enslave, rape, torment, condemn, or murder for pleasure and profit.

safeinOhio

(32,688 posts)

2. Language needs polar opposites to define words.

Reply to Duppers (Original post)

Sat Oct 5, 2019, 06:02 AM

Oct 2019

There would be no good without evil, no up or down, no left or right. with out one there would be no need for the other. They define each other like heads and tails of a coin toss. Simple concept, but not always easy to comprehend.

Duppers

(28,125 posts)

4. A reminder of a definition of "evil"

Reply to Duppers (Original post)

Sat Oct 5, 2019, 08:13 AM

Oct 2019

Evil: Something that brings harm or distress.

I see that some posters lack the very root of kindness: the ability to empathize with all.

DavidDvorkin

(19,479 posts)

5. This reminds me of my own response to a blog post

Reply to Duppers (Original post)

Sat Oct 5, 2019, 11:49 AM

Oct 2019

Which said that nature is so beautiful that the poster didn't see how anyone could be an atheist. Nature's beauty is the best argument for the existence of God. This essay was my response:

http://dvorkin.com/essays/godmustexist.php

mountain grammy

(26,623 posts)

6. Nature at it's best, the ever fragile food chain

Reply to Duppers (Original post)

Sat Oct 5, 2019, 04:44 PM

Oct 2019

that we are destroying. As we search for a moral superior, our intelligence puts that on us.

So sad. I believe evolution went one step too far and won't get farther enough in time to fix it..

Farmer-Rick

(10,183 posts)

7. Mother and children dining upon mother and children

Reply to Duppers (Original post)

Sat Oct 5, 2019, 05:27 PM

Oct 2019

Yup, if I were god I could have designed a much better world where death was not a requirement for dinner.

If you ask me, this is just a really poorly designed world and god should be blamed and Not worshipped.

Duppers

(28,125 posts)

8. You understand. If there were a "god."

Reply to Farmer-Rick (Reply #7)

Sat Oct 5, 2019, 06:26 PM

Oct 2019

Thank you.

If there were a god, he f'd up.

Farmer-Rick

(10,183 posts)

9. True.

Reply to Duppers (Reply #8)

Sat Oct 5, 2019, 10:04 PM

Oct 2019

This world functions as if there is no god. There is no substantial and reliable evidence of a god. I personally do not believe in a god.

But those who believe in a god, should not worship him for his poor design capabilities and little, to no, ingenuity.

Bayard

(22,094 posts)

10. Same as it ever was....

Reply to Duppers (Original post)

Sun Oct 6, 2019, 11:21 AM

Oct 2019

While we may be horrified at what some animals do, they're just delighted to have found a meal, protect their young, their territory.

Humans are the only creatures that can be evil.....killing for "sport". Most of the time, they aren't going to eat what they kill. They just want bragging rights. I have no problem with hunters who are actually eating what they kill.

Does, "God", play a role in any of this? The same god that commanded you kill your first born son, or to stone unfaithful women? I think the Bible was written by men who wanted an excuse for the evil they committed.

Duppers

(28,125 posts)

11. +100

Reply to Bayard (Reply #10)

Wed Jan 1, 2020, 06:33 AM

Jan 2020

uriel1972

(4,261 posts)

12. nature is not cruel.. nature is not kind...

Reply to Duppers (Original post)

Sat Jan 4, 2020, 09:08 PM

Jan 2020

It simply is.

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